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Operating 266 Volt Motors on 230V..... Explain Please

HurleyByrd

Aluminum
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Jan 21, 2011
Location
WV United States
I have an opportunity to purchase some nice 3hp Sew Eurodrive Gearmotors at a good price. They are 266v/460v rated motors which I would operate on 230v. I have run across this before and typically pass as there are other options. BUT, ignorance is not a good trait. So I sat down and decided to search for the 266v vs 230v detail explanation. There are NONE........

Who here truly understands the what and why of 266 motors in the US anyway. They do not meet the 10% deviation (Sew holds their formal installations directives to 5%)........ 230v x 1.1 = 253v. AND I find it hard to believe ANY company would accept the cost of HAVING to install transformers for such a motor usage. Just buy a 230v. SEW produces great products...... and I suspect it is fine to install a 266v on 230v system???!!!???!!! But my ignorance is unacceptable on my end.

Your help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Pete
 
Nameplate.... I am actually asking a general question. I am looking for the broad application/installation of 266v. But here's an example nameplate.
 

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That's because 266V is not actually a valid voltage for anything. Eurodrive, being a European company, makes motors for countries OTHER than the US. Those motors can be used here though. it's kind of a long story if you want to TRULY understand, let me explain by building a case (or just skip to the end):

1) Here in North America we use 60Hz power. Almost everywhere else in the world, they use 50Hz power. Without getting into the whys and wherefores, suffice to say it's just because AC power was developed separately and almost simultaneously on opposite sides of the Atlantic during an age when long distance communication took months, not nanoseconds...

2) Our voltage standards are different here compared to "over there": Us; low voltage distribution is 600V, 480V, 240V, 208V 3 phase and 277V, 240V or 120V single phase, depending on where you are and what you are doing. Them; a relatively new "harmonized" system of 400V (or 230V*) 3 phase and 230V single phase, but really depending on the actual country, the "400V" is going to be 380V, 400V or 415V with a corresponding single phase voltage of 220V, 230V and 240V respectively.

3) In the 3 phase Wye (Star) systems, the RELATIONSHIP between phase-to-phase voltage and phase-to-neutral voltage is the square root of 3 (1.732). Hence, on a 480V wye system, we call it 480Y277 meaning 480V ph-ph and 277V ph-n. Over there, it is 400V ph-ph and 230V ph-n.

4) Over here, we have a SEPARATE system of standardized voltage levels called "Utilization Voltage", for things that USE electricity, as opposed to what it is DISTRIBUTED as by the utilities, because our distances are longer, so we EXPECT that there will be "voltage drop" between the service entrance and the location of the machine, i.e. the motor. The corresponding Utilization Voltage then for 480V is 460V (240V = 230V, 120V = 115V, etc., you get the picture). These are enshrined in a set of standards from a non-profit organization called "NEMA", the National Electrical Manufacturers Assoc., using a standard called NEMA MG-1 (MG = Motors and Generators). Those same standards were then adopted by the semi-Governmental agency called the American National Standards Institute (ANSI).

5) A similar system, called "IEC" (International Electrotechnical Commission) exists in the EU, but not so on the different votlage standards, at least not in the same way. 400V means 400V there, whether talking about distribution or utilization. But remember, that is ALREADY a "harmonized" level, a compromise, because of all the different countries having different actual voltages. Besides, things are so crowded there that voltage drop between service and load is minimal as well because they are on top of each other.

6) Motors convert electrical energy into mechanical rotating energy, measured in torque and speed. The shorthand unit of measure for both together is what we call "HP", over there they call it "kW", meaning MECHANICAL kilowatts (we use kW only for electrical values). But the chief thing we USE motors for is torque. Speed is consequential to the number of motor poles (coils) and the frequency.

7) Motor design Torque, meaning what we EXPECT from it, is dependent upon the RATIO of the voltage AND frequency together, because that is what creates the magnetic flux that makes the motor spin. That V/Hz ratio then is what we must judge a motor design's performance against. Here, and there, the design criteria is that a motor will produce the DESIGNED torque at the RATED voltage and frequency ratio, +-10%. So here, 460/60 = a V/Hz ratio of 7.67:1. Over there, a 380V 50Hz motor (the original pre-harmonized predominant design) is 380/50 = ... a V/Hz ratio of 7.6:1! Almost exactly the same, and not by coincidence. 400/50 = 8:1, still within the +10% rule. That means you can safely use a 400V 50Hz IEC motor over here as a 460V motor, and you can safely use a 460V 60Hz NEMA designed motor over there at 400V 50Hz.

8) As noted in #2 above (*), a FEW countries and areas, predominantly those influenced bu the UK, use 230V 3 phase in some areas. Because of that, most IEC motor mfrs make "dual voltage" motors by using 6 leads that can be configured internally in a Delta pattern for the low (230V) supply, and a Star (Wye) pattern for the High (400V) supply.

9) Over here we have dual voltage motors as well, but for us they are simply two sets of identical winding inside of the motor, and we connect them in SERIES for 460V and in PARALLEL for 230V, because for US, the two different voltages are 2:1, not 1.732:1.

10) Finally... So when an IEC motor manufacturer, such as Eurotherm, sends a motor over here that was DESIGNED for 400V 50Hz to be used as 460V 60Hz, the second (low) winding connection will NOT be suitable for 230V 60Hz, because the V/Hz ratio will be incorrect; 230/60 = 3.83:2, 230/50 = 4.6:1, and that is MORE than the +10% allowance (17% actually). So to help AVOID having someone over here ASSume that they can use that motor at 230V and burn it up, they LABEL it as 266V, because that's what it is; 460/1.732 = 266!
 
Nameplate.... I am actually asking a general question. I am looking for the broad application/installation of 266v. But here's an example nameplate.

the motors you have are nominally 277/480v motors, meaning that's the line voltage you would expect to connect them to. the nameplate voltage is usually 4% less than the nominal line voltage. now i've never heard of 277 three phase, usually that's the line to ground voltage for 277/480v. 277 three phase would either be delta and would be 277 only but if its wye you would have 160 vac line to neutral, and i've never seen or heard of any mention of 160vac.

You can get about 80 percent nameplate torque (or hp) by running them from a 240V three phase supply. if your 240v supply is actually only 220v, then you can only load those motors to about 65% of "rated hp" following the general rule of ratio of volts squared. so at half the voltage you can get about 25% of the torque.

however, with the reduced voltage comes reduced saturation and other losses, so its up to you to measure the motor's internal winding temperature and determine safe loading.


if you run them from a VFD then program your vfd for 266 volts/60hz and if that vfd is run from a 240vac line, then you'll get full torque from the motor up to (230/266)*60hz which is something like 50hz or 1450 rpm


in short, you can run an induction motor at whatever voltage you want, you just won't get any torque out of it. my 5hp 4 pole 1750 rpm 60hz motor runs just fine on 16 vac single phase, drawing just 3 amps of current, any less and it doesn't produce enough torque to overcome windage losses and it will fall out of sync.


also concerning point #10 in Jraef's post, the nameplate says 60hz. its almost interesting speculating that they took their off the shelf motor (400/230 50hz) and adjusted the numbers for the 60hz american market. but no one here has 277 delta available.
 
I have an opportunity to purchase some nice 3hp Sew Eurodrive Gearmotors at a good price. They are 266v/460v rated motors which I would operate on 230v.~ ~ AND I find it hard to believe ANY company would accept the cost of HAVING to install transformers for such a motor usage.
Pete

If you got them at a good enough price, and had a real use for them, they could be powered from your 240V 3Φ with 2) 1Φ 1.5KVA 240x480-120/240V transformers connected in open delta configuration, 240V to 480V 3Φ. Would yield a 5KVA bank. Plenty big enough for 3HP or 2.2KW

But your company may find that cost prohibitive, unless you had them used in your parts bin...

SqD 3Φ 240 to 480 Open Delta.jpg

SAF Ω
 
If you got them at a good enough price, and had a real use for them, they could be powered from your 240V 3Φ with 2) 1Φ 1.5KVA 240x480-120/240V transformers connected in open delta configuration, 240V to 480V 3Φ. Would yield a 5KVA bank. Plenty big enough for 3HP or 2.2KW

But your company may find that cost prohibitive, unless you had them used in your parts bin...

View attachment 217417

SAF Ω

The transformers cited can be had for mebbe a hundred bucks to twice that, used-but-good, are not horribly expensive, brand-new.

Hardly a show-stopper if the motors happen to fit a European / ISO motor-mount & metrifuckated shaft size on a mill or lathe more easily than adapting the machine-tool to a NEMA frame motor and US shaft size.

Otherwise... world is full of orphaned motors. Why adopt a red-headed step-child?
 
That is what I am after.... Thank YOU!!!! In a nutshell..... drop the $$$ on 230v units as I have been doing.

As others noted below..... transformers could be employed, etc.... but then again... why? If a company had a bunch of "stuff" sitting around and it was cost effective in building a proper system.... that is a great route.

But I personally will stear clear of 266v. This explanation corrected my very wrong thinking. No longer ignorant.... and that... is a Think-O-Beauty.

As always... PM comes through again.
Be Well
Pete
 
A couple of small buck boost transformers could be had for less than $100. I had a Robinson 7.5 hp motor wired 275 and two 1 kva handled it. .5 should be large enough for that size motor. Dave
 
Follow Up and Conclusion

I finally just wrote Sew Eurodrive and presented my question. Although I didn't get great detail, I received an answer from a "Mechanical Engineering Technician" out of South Carolina.

As noted, he would not give me any details in regards to what/why of a 266v motor but he made it positively clear I could hook the 266v to my 230v 3PH with no issues whatsoever. He simply stated that I will not get all 3 HP from the unit nor will it operate at its peak efficiency but it's full acceptable to install it as I requested.

I replied asking if these motors were somehow originally designed to operate in some fashion from the 1PH leg of a 3PH 480v system (480v / 1.732 = 277 less the 4% [ x.96 = 266v] line voltage drop for a labeling of 266v) He replied with an absolutely not as motors are either single phase motor or three phase, nothing more or less.

End of the day........ if you have a 266v......... run it.
Thanks for the help all,
Pete
 








 
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