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Phase Perfect DPC-A10 not resetting on start up ..............

Toolznthings

Hot Rolled
Joined
Feb 14, 2005
Location
Akron, Ohio
Hi All,

My DCP-A10 will not reset on startup and therefore will not work. It's a hit and miss problem, mostly miss.
I replaced the three capacitors as suggested by Phase Technologies with no luck.
They no longer support this unit and no spare parts are available. :( Unit was new in 2008 with little use.
Anyone else experiencing this type of problem ?

Replaced with new unit and already have had to replace two updated input modules on warranty.
Would like to save old unit.

Thanks !
Brian
 
Hi All,

My DCP-A10 will not reset on startup and therefore will not work. It's a hit and miss problem, mostly miss.
I replaced the three capacitors as suggested by Phase Technologies with no luck.
They no longer support this unit and no spare parts are available. :( Unit was new in 2008 with little use.
Anyone else experiencing this type of problem ?

Replaced with new unit and already have had to replace two updated input modules on warranty.
Would like to save old unit.

Thanks !
Brian

There are many many folks here who claim to be experts in the care and feeding of PP systems. I'm honestly
suprised none of them have tried to help you. They are, strangely, mute at the moment.

There is at least one soul who is in the exact predicament you are in, he had a dead PP unit that simply could not be
fixed. This seems a shame to me.

Possibly by pointing out the lack of long-term reliability of these things, I could get a vigorous discussion started and
then they could help you. Then again the response might be "things ten years old stop working. "
 
No help from me, don't know any details, although I do know how they work, and may make one someday.....

The issue is obviously a PP-specific issue, and requires knowledge past that of a "mere user" to even identify, let alone fix. The PP techs and engineers have likely seen it before and know what it is. But, without parts, that knowledge would not help.

When faced with "mystery boxes"/ "magic boxes" that stop working, one is reminded of the saying I saw from a guy from some online forums...: "If you can't fix it, you don't own it".

A PP is a very good solution to a requirement. But, "You do not own it".
 
Thanks for the replies.

"If you can't fix it, you don't own it". I'm afraid that could apply to more things we buy these days than we all realize. :)

Brian
 
I replaced the three capacitors as suggested by Phase Technologies with no luck.

Units from 08 are known for all sorts of capacitor problems. That they recommended changing several is a very good indication this might be your problem.

What caps were they, values/etc? Are there more capacitors on the system that could be suspect? Do a visual inspection and look for any electrolytic capacitors that have a bulged top or otherwise appear out of the norm. If possible use an LCR meter to test whatever ones you can access.
 
Hi,
There were 3 oil filled 20 mu f 370 v AC capacitors.
They were buried in the back of the case. You have to disassemble case to get at them. I'll look for others as suggested. I have it in storage at the moment.

New unit requires capacitor replacement every two years. Easy to get at. :)

Thanks !
 
Hi,
There were 3 oil filled 20 mu f 370 v AC capacitors.
They were buried in the back of the case. You have to disassemble case to get at them. I'll look for others as suggested. I have it in storage at the moment.

New unit requires capacitor replacement every two years. Easy to get at. :)

Thanks !

That's nuts! I have mid-90s VFDs chugging along nicely never needing caps. Same for ancient cap-start motors, and 1967-era caps in my 10EE (Ok, those could perhaps use attention.) what's so special about a PhasePerfect regarding caps that can't take it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
what's so special about a PhasePerfect regarding caps that can't take it?

LOL! Easy one.

These caps are in a very different circuit. One where they actually have to work, and work HARD to do what is asked of them.

JM2CW, but I'd be using 440 V or better, not 370 V.
 
LOL! Easy one.

These caps are in a very different circuit. One where they actually have to work, and work HARD to do what is asked of them.

JM2CW, but I'd be using 440 V or better, not 370 V.

Which is the long way of saying that the designers made a mistake, and needed to use a more robust unit, or parallel them, whatever reduces the stress on each unit a bit.

The film type are NOT known for being fussy compared to electrolytic types, so they must be rather seriously overloaded if they really only last a couple 3 years. The power company has film caps out on the poles that last 25 years or more even with the added solar heat load on them in addition to heating from normal usage.
 
Which is the long way of saying that the designers made a mistake,
No, not a "mistake" at all.

We've already established that P-P work well and last a long (enough) time.

What they made was an economic decision. And it wasn't a bad one.

For my own use, I'd make a different economic decision.

Had they done it my way, MIL-Spec / old "Gold Plated" Cable & Wireless way - where a supply vessel might visit an island with spares for a cable station but twice a YEAR, the P-P would have had to have been priced out of reach.

No one would have cared if it had an average life of 20-30 years instead of 10-15 years, because they would not have OWNED one.
 
"Economic decisions" are "not wrong" when they do not result in a problem. When a part that is normally long lived needs to be replaced every 3 years, and is a prime failure point in the device, it is THE WRONG PART. The designer simply made a mistake.

The PP is an industrial device, not some cheaped-out junk sold at walmart. It should NOT have a specific part that fails in 3 years. The rest of the device seems to last, it would not be "gold plated" if the proper parts had been specified cor that use.

If it were an airplane related device, and had to be light, then replacement would be OK. If it were a one time use device, like a well logger, it would be OK...

As an industrial device, it should not require regular replacement of such internal parts.

As an economic decision, it was the wrong one.
 
"Economic decisions" are "not wrong" when they do not result in a problem. When a part that is normally long lived needs to be replaced every 3 years, and is a prime failure point in the device, it is THE WRONG PART. The designer simply made a mistake.

The PP is an industrial device, not some cheaped-out junk sold at walmart. It should NOT have a specific part that fails in 3 years. The rest of the device seems to last, it would not be "gold plated" if the proper parts had been specified cor that use.

If it were an airplane related device, and had to be light, then replacement would be OK. If it were a one time use device, like a well logger, it would be OK...

As an industrial device, it should not require regular replacement of such internal parts.

As an economic decision, it was the wrong one.

So follow your mind. Don't trouble yourself to own one.

I'll keep mine, thanks.

Spend on FOOD is far greater for most folk.

And we all know what THAT turns into.

"Design flaws" or otherwise, sure as (the lack of a) s**t would not WANT last night's chicken tender to last 20 years "in service".

:)
 
So follow your mind. Don't trouble yourself to own one.

I'll keep mine, thanks.

Spend on FOOD is far greater for most folk.

And we all know what THAT turns into.

"Design flaws" or otherwise, sure as (the lack of a) s**t would not WANT last night's chicken tender to last 20 years "in service".

:)



Won't be worrying about what on earth you may have meant by that, aside from comparing a Phase perfect to a pile of shit. You and Jim R collaborating these days? :D Makes as much sense as a lot of your ramblings and odd examples.

Anyhow, no engineer wants to design -in an unintended specific failure mode. It's bad for warranty costs, as well as reputations.

Ideally, a product gets to end of life with failures being of random sorts, or, possibly, failures being rare until a very reasonable life, and then may be random within a heavily loaded section, such as the power modules. You'd expect power modules to be a failure area at the "end of life", after 15 or more years of operation.

There are products a former employer made back in the 1980s that are still operating on a regular basis. And those are portable consumer products, not industrial, full of low-bidder electrolytic capacitors. I KNOW they were never expected to work this long.

An industrial power product ought to reliably work at least 10 years, and probably 15+. Long enough that it is written off and possibly not even needed anymore.

Maybe the PP really do last that long. I do not own one. The only folks talking much about them here are ones who had them crap out and are mad that 10 years after they were discontinued , they can't be repaired. THAT part I have no issue with.
 
No, not a "mistake" at all.
We've already established that P-P work well and last a long (enough) time.

Right. Things just 'stop working' after ten years and you should be ready to replace anything and everything
in your house, shop, vehicles, every ten years.

Yep, battery in your car died after ten years, it's potted in there. Buy a new car, get over it.
Yep, the boiler in your house quit after ten years. Potted unit, buy a new house. Get over it.
Yep, the bandsaw in your shop stopped working. But it's potted in place. Go find another shop. Get over it.

Makes perfect sense, the ultimate in disposable economy.

Actually one person (was it buckminster fuller?) that vehicles would have a replaceable power pod, with all the
components neatly packaged so you could simply unplug that from the back of the car and replace it with a
re-built unit. All cars would use the same flavor of power pod so there would be a real economy of scale.

Power pod for a Mercedes would be the same form factor, and interchange with, one from a Chevy.
 
I do.

Maybe you should own one, too. Rozen as well.

You both might make fewer silly-stupid posts in ignorance and we could ALL be better-served.

Would be *overjoyed* to own one! When can I expect the check from Virginia?

=)

Oh yeah, could you please expand on the statement that some capacitors 'work harder' than others?
Don't want any 'lazy capacitors' in my stuff.....
 
The PP circuit card is potted because the unit may sit out in the shop, in a dirty environment. Potting (or conformal coat, which it may be in reality) makes the board fairly immune to conductive dust, etc. It is a smart move, actually.

There is no guarantee that a non potted/coated board would be fixable. Power boards often fail with a hole blown in them by an arc... you are dealing with a lot of power. The potting/coating also helps with arcing, a good thing because arcing may cause it to fail UL.

As for "working harder", it appears to mean "working too hard", aka "under-rated for the task". At least they are replaceable, PP seems to have run out of the potted/coated modules.
 
LOL!

Have to say you two on voluntary early senile dementia pills are more entertaining than Gordon Bee-damned on his own coprophiliac cocktails, but..

Not by all that much... Mayhap you should speculate on the Moscow Stock market and see if you could crash it from a distance any worse than already?

Must know easily as much about it as a Phase Perfect you cannot afford and have never even seen the inside of, no?

So much for Sour Grapes and Groundless Speculation Department. Off with the both of you. Have a go at the reliability of Bic lighters, Philips dark-bulbs or such.

Now .. FWIW-not-much-Department?

There have been dozens of "checks from Virginia". Or cash. Or PayPal. Or hardware. Some recipients more than twice.

Not one has yet gone to a nattering fool.

Folks who add value to humanity in general - and/or to PM and myself in particular, rather. Hardware and/or services my way, usually, but not always. A Phase Perfect among that collection. "Value for money", if you will.

Was it Churchill?
Of COURSE I am an optimist. Never saw the POINT in being anything else!

I'm good with that.

:)
 
Right. Things just 'stop working' after ten years and you should be ready to replace anything and everything
in your house, shop, vehicles, every ten years.

Yep, battery in your car died after ten years, it's potted in there. Buy a new car, get over it.
Yep, the boiler in your house quit after ten years. Potted unit, buy a new house. Get over it.
Yep, the bandsaw in your shop stopped working. But it's potted in place. Go find another shop. Get over it.

Makes perfect sense, the ultimate in disposable economy.

Actually one person (was it buckminster fuller?) that vehicles would have a replaceable power pod, with all the
components neatly packaged so you could simply unplug that from the back of the car and replace it with a
re-built unit. All cars would use the same flavor of power pod so there would be a real economy of scale.

Power pod for a Mercedes would be the same form factor, and interchange with, one from a Chevy.


I'd be happy if cordless power tools had a universal interface.

I'm puzzled why NEMA specs require various plugs and receptacles, when a 125-250 twistlock doesn't HAVE to access both 125 and 250. The receptacle supplies both, but the equipment may need to access just one voltage.

Same can be said for three phase receptacles.
 
"Not one has yet gone to a nattering fool. "

Hey. Not my call, this one's on YOU. Your comment is, "I should this, I should do that."
I'm happy to obey ALL your wishes. You however, pay up front for the compliance.

By all means, send me the money, I'll put it IMMEDIATELY towards the purchase of a brand
new phase perfect unit. That'll keep me running for ten years, at the apparent life span figure
for these.

I'll be MORE than happy to put my 30 year rotary converter on ice while I extract the value out
of the PP unit. When that dies, I'll simply put my faithfull rotary back on line and keep on
churning out chips.

You talk the talk. But do you back up the talk, with cash?
 








 
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