VFD for a 3ph 5hp motor going on my cone head lathe

Hey guys, I have a new WEG 5hp 3ph motor that I want to put a VFD on to attach it to my lathe. I only have single phase 220 in the shop. Can you guys make a suggestion as to a good VFD to use? Do I need to use a phase converter or will the VFD do that for me. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Bryan

blawless said:

Hey guys, I have a new WEG 5hp 3ph motor that I want to put a VFD on to attach it to my lathe. I only have single phase 220 in the shop. Can you guys make a suggestion as to a good VFD to use? Do I need to use a phase converter or will the VFD do that for me. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Bryan

Click to expand...

One... a VFD only. Earlier times, a 10 HP VFD to allow for de-rating to a 5 HP load when run off single-phase. That can still work, but RTFM first for the maker's limitations. Present times a VFD specified by the maker to be able to haul a 5 HP 3-P load off single-phase input is affordable, too. You get speed control beyond just the belted ratios alone.

The other... a 7.5 to 10 HP RPC. Advantage is it can be used to run OTHER loads. Your speeds will be determined by your belted ratios, 3 or 4 cone-step final+back gears, one two, or three step motor to countershaft ratios times the finals. No continuously variable knob - it never had one and can make chips without it now.


or BOTH.. RPC powering a VFD so it needs near-zero "de rating". You get more speeds, as in step one, but can use a cheaper VFD, and still run other 3-P loads off the RPC.

Your call.

Bryan,

I have a nice Hitachi drive on my 5hp lathe. Per Hitachi's instructions, the install required a 10hp rated drive as it was to be powered with 240v single phase. Haven't had a hiccup in over 10 years.

Stuart

Hi Bryan!

I'll third the note that VFD would be the solution you'd find most effective for your cone-head... you didn't note the brand/model of lathe, but if it's got a thread-on spindle nose, make sure you have a way of substantially locking the chuck to the nose in the event that you set the VFD up with dynamic braking and reverse, because it could spin the chuck right off the spindle.

220v at 5hp means your drive will be carrying quite a chunk of current, and oftentimes, four or five 480v VFDs can be hand on the good-take-out surplus market for the cost of 1 230v drive... in which case, look for a 6-10kva dry transformer 240/480... bring 240 in through your power contactor, into the 240v winding (secondary), and feed the 480 out into two fo the three 480v line input terminals, then swap the voltage connections of your spindle motor to 480v, feed the VFD's output into your motor, program it for 5hp, hook up control connections, add a speed control knob, and cut some metal...

Oh... and after you've discovered how nice speed control is, remove the mechanical fan from your spindle motor, and install a constant-speed cooling fan to it- it'll keep the motor cool at any speed, and reduce the noise.

Is $775.00 plus shipping for the 10hp Hitachi too much?

blawless said:

Is $775.00 plus shipping for the 10hp Hitachi too much?

Click to expand...

There are much better units for less money:

Allen Bradley PowerFlex 7� 7.5kW 1� HP 3 Phase 2�A C �15 A 1 AYNANNN | eBay

blawless said:

Is $775.00 plus shipping for the 10hp Hitachi too much?

Click to expand...

VFD are commodities these days. Prices can change in a single hour of a single day.

I'd check Wolf Automation, Drives Direct, Drives Warehouse, and whomever else you can find for pricing.. and have USUALLY found meself actually buying from Galco, especially when they have a promo or last-year's model on closeout price.

Otherwise, my 10 HP RPC cost about a hundred bucks less, using all new parts (Weg motor, Phase-Craft starter/control).

My NEWER Phase-Perfect 10 HP was over 4 grand, the used one less than half that.

I STRONGLY recommend against used VFD!!!

There were once a tribe of virtual dreadnoughts built by old-line makers with great caution and deep, deep reserves. If not long-gone, even those are well past their safe capacitor bank life by now.

Newer VFD are treated more as the "consumables" they actually are, so major-maker, "fresh" production, reputable dealer, and decent warranty all matter.

Ex:

$800, eight year life = $100/year for a VFD.

$700, 35 year life = $20/year for the RPC.

buuut... the RPC will have wasted more paid-for 'lectricity than the VFD -roughy 10% vs 5%, so..

Your budget. Your call.

rons said:

There are much better units for less money:

Allen Bradley PowerFlex 7� 7.5kW 1� HP 3 Phase 2�A C �15 A 1 AYNANNN | eBay

Click to expand...

I got the Allen Bradley for $225.00 shipped. Thanks for the heads up.

blawless said:

I got the Allen Bradley for $225.00 shipped. Thanks for the heads up.

Click to expand...

They have some of the best manuals and other support pubs around. About a dozen in all.

Suggest you grab the whole lot of those free .pdf's and stash them locally while the getting is still good and they are still easy to find. Light scan read of at least tables of contents so you know that you have it all, and where.

Otherwise the installation pub, 20A-in009, is the one to use "mostly".

Good drives in their their day - introduced ten years or so back.

Hope this one is young enough it still IS good for yah.

That VFD is a 400V version, you would want a 240V version with a higher amperage rating. I would be skeptical of buying a 14 YO used VFD, let alone having the capacitors still function. FYI, there are several manufactures of single phase 5Hp 240VAC VFDs. I recently worked with another lathe owner that installing a Yasakawa drive with good results on a 5Hp motor.
Yaskawa CIMR-VUBA18FAA, 5 HP, 2-24V, VFD

Wow..doesn't look promising. Maybe some bad advice on that old used drive.. but we will see.

Stuart

blawless said:

I got the Allen Bradley for $225.00 shipped. Thanks for the heads up.

Click to expand...

The link I copied was just an example. What model did you buy?
You can check it with this drive selector:

PowerFlex 7 AC Drives

What you should have been shopping for is this model (minimum):

20AB022A0AYNANC0 (240V 7.5Hp normal duty, 5Hp heavy duty)

WARNING: Applies to used and new drives.

Don't plug it in with full line voltage and load motor. You don't know how long it has been idle. It's safer to think about capacitor reforming:

http://ecatalog.weg.net/files/wegne...vfd-capacitors-usareform-brochure-english.pdf

Look at some other articles too.

IMHO..the OP took the advice (not advise) that was given and that advice was bunk! Hope all turns out OK for 'blawless'.

Stuart

bunk:
a narrow shelflike bed, typically one of two or more arranged one on top of the other.

LOL

My recommendation to the OP would be to see if you can return the Allen Bradley unit while you can and before you install it if you purchased the eBay model/used unit suggested. It is not a matter of "will see", it is clearly the wrong unit. I have tossed so many of these older AB VFDs, I couldn't give them away if I wanted to and they ended up in the trash. Ironically I replaced them with Hitachi and Yasakawa VFDs and have yet to see one fail. The OP is looking for a simple replacement, not an expensive industrial VFD to be used 24/7. VFDs/capacitors have a shelf life and the capacitors need to be reconditioned when sitting "unused" on the shelf for any length of time, but they also have a total hours lifetime "use" and they degrade to the point of failure and cannot be "reconditioned". You are buying a used 14 YO VFD, I would not waste your time or money for an old used VFD when for not much more you can install a new/modern VFD that is correct for your application.

I would talk to the folks at drive warehouse, if you are looking at something simple consider the following, these are a little over $500:
ODE-3-320153-1042, 5 HP, 230V Phase Converter ODE-3-32153-142, 23V 1 Phase input, 23V 3 Phase output
Yaskawa, CIMR-VUBA0018FAA, 5HP, 1-Phase, 200-240V (Input) Yaskawa CIMR-VUBA18FAA, 5 HP, 2-24V, VFD
WJ200-055LF: Constant Torque, Sensorless Vector Hitachi 7.5 HP, 5.5kW WJ2-55LF 7.5HP 5.5kW 23V VFD - Hitachi

The WJ200-055LF is 3 phase input, but will work just fine derated for single phase in this application. Also the supply (input) breaker wire is specific to the VFD sizing and not the load, so for the Hitachi and Allen Bradley you would need it rated for 5.5kW. This is an additional cost vs. the 3.7 kW single phase input models. If you are just looking for phase conversion without the VFD features, then get an RPC. A VFD is not hooking up the input and output and you are good to go, you end up stripping out the native lathe control box and using the VFD low voltage inputs to control the lathe functions. In all the builds I do, I install a completely new control board system.

rons said:

The link I copied was just an example. What model did you buy?
You can check it with this drive selector:

PowerFlex 7 AC Drives

What you should have been shopping for is this model (minimum):

20AB022A0AYNANC0 (240V 7.5Hp normal duty, 5Hp heavy duty)

WARNING: Applies to used and new drives.

Don't plug it in with full line voltage and load motor. You don't know how long it has been idle. It's safer to think about capacitor reforming:

http://ecatalog.weg.net/files/wegne...vfd-capacitors-usareform-brochure-english.pdf

Look at some other articles too.

Click to expand...

The unit I bought is the AB Powerflex 70. 7.5KW 10hp 3ph 20amp. Serial# c015 a1 aynannn. Hope I didn't screw myself.

blawless said:

The unit I bought is the AB Powerflex 70. 7.5KW 10hp 3ph 20amp. Serial# c015 a1 aynannn.

Click to expand...

There will be a build-date somewhere on the labeling. See prior info as to capacitors.
And how many folks said you should avoid old, used, long-idle VFD, no matter how great they were Day Zero?

All contributors have BT,DT,GTTS. We ain't making this s**t up.

Hope I didn't screw myself.

Click to expand...

Probably.

Good news is it was on the cheap, and you are not likely to get pregnant or have to plan child support or a college loan out of the experience.



Just go and budget a new VFD..

One with a decent Warranty so even the minor risk of early-fail of the caps - or anything else - is not 100% your problem, alone.

blawless said:

The unit I bought is the AB Powerflex 70. 7.5KW 10hp 3ph 20amp. Serial# c015 a1 aynannn. Hope I didn't screw myself.

Click to expand...

That is not a serial number. It's part of a catalog number. The "c" means it is a 400VAC model.

rons said:

The link I copied was just an example. What model did you buy?
You can check it with this drive selector:

PowerFlex 7 AC Drives

What you should have been shopping for is this model (minimum):

20AB022A0AYNANC0 (240V 7.5Hp normal duty, 5Hp heavy duty)

WARNING: Applies to used and new drives.

Don't plug it in with full line voltage and load motor. You don't know how long it has been idle. It's safer to think about capacitor reforming:

http://ecatalog.weg.net/files/wegne...vfd-capacitors-usareform-brochure-english.pdf

Look at some other articles too.

Click to expand...

The very one that was listed in the link.

blawless said:

The unit I bought is the AB Powerflex 70. 7.5KW 10hp 3ph 20amp. Serial# c015 a1 aynannn. Hope I didn't screw myself.

Click to expand...

That is not a serial number. It is the trailing sequence of numbers for a catalog number. The number sequence should start with "AB". The "c" means a 400VAC model. A "b" means a 230VAC model.