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VFD tuning for 3 phase motor

wagsha48

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
I just hooked up my 1.5hp motor to a 2hp VFD. It ran nicely but got fairly warm after a short time and smoked a little bit. The motor has been stored in a harsh environment for many years before I got the machine. I set it to 60hz. Would it help if I ran at a lower freq or do I need to look into a new motor? Are there any other settings or anything I should look at in the motor?
 
I assume the motor smoked and got warm and not the VFD. Check the output current rating on the drive versus the rated current of the motor. Since the drive is slightly over-sized for the motor, it potentially has the ability to send more current to the motor than the motor was designed for. Did you program the VFD with the motor name plate information and limit the output current to match the specifications of the motor?

You also mentioned the motor was in a harsh environment for many years. Did you clean out the motor before applying power?
 
Yes the motor smoked not the vfd. I did clean the motor and replaced the leads to the windings. The windings looked fairly good. It just smelled like warm varnish not burned windings so I think I'll be ok once I tune the drive to the motor better. I only tuned the output frequency and have not yet checked current settings. They may be set high like the freq default which was 400hz. Any other setting I need to be looki at? I am new to tuning VFDs. Did it once in school but I was probably hung over. Thanks for the help
 
Who's the manufacturer and model number of the VFD. All VFDs have motor input parameters. These should be set prior to hitting the run button on the drive so the drive know what it is talking to. Check out both the quick start guide and the manual.
 
Most VFDs have a commissioning test that you can enable AFTER you set the motor nameplate FLA value in the drive.

Sounds like the drive is over fluxing the motor (magnetizing current set too high) . . . you can overheat and fry a motor pretty quickly even with no load by not setting the drive up properly.
 
When using a previously used VFD, it is ALWAYS a good idea to find and implement the "Reset to Factory Defaults" option on the drive. Always start from a clean slate.

Step 2 is to ALWAYS program the motor nameplate data into the drive before doing anything else. That's what protects everything.
 
It's an isacon hy01d523b. I don't see any setting to adjust the current. It does have a default for 400 he and 50hz. It came out of the box set st 400 and I turned it down to 60. All of the other parameters are identical except the torque compensation freq which was defaulted at 500hz but should be set to 80 for a 50hz motor. I didn't notice this earlier. Maybe if I turn that down where it will fix it. Here is a graph of the frequency comp function from the manual. I guess if it's supplying the motor compensation at a frequency that's 6x too high it might not like it, but I don't really understand this function and when it would be applied, if at all under no load
image.jpg image.jpg
 
I'd say it's basically an HY inverter except the manual says it's made by isacon. Identical to HY though. Do I need to doing for an Allen-Bradley or does anyone know how to make these work right? I know I'll buy a better quality VFD next time
 
You have it, may as well use it until it fails.

The first thing to do IS to reset to defaults, the manufacturer may have left it in some odd condition.

Then set the basic stuff, motor rated voltage, frequency, current, max frequency, etc.

Then you set start and stop parameters, acceleration time, deceleration mode and time (time not required if you coast to stop).

Control source, keypad or a remote box, can be set as well, but probably defaults to keypad, so it should work from the keypad when you have set the other stuff.

Make sure it runs as expected from keypad, then if all OK, you can do the remote.

That curve of voltage vs frequency looks like some sort of HVAC boost function, which you may want to NOT use, leaving it in a straight V/Hz mode.
 
I defaulted all of the settings to the 50hertz factory parameters. Still the same. Motor Runs nice about 2 minutes and slowly begins to smoke. Here's me parameter list. I don't see anywhere to adjust the amperage. image.jpgimage.jpg
 

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This is yet another phony balony name for the Huanyang POS drive... that makes 5 iterations I have seen of it now. Most likely they have noticed the negative reviews of the product and keep changing the name to hide it from new victims...

As JST said, you already own it, might as well try to use it before it fries itself (and it will).

the factory default setting for output frequency is 50Hz, not 400Hz (400Hz is the maximum). If you can't change it, that makes it appear that someone has "locked" the parameters. That is done in parameter #PD000. A value of "01" means it is locked, set it to 00 to unlock it. Then go to PD013 and set it to 08 to reset everything to the factory defaults. You will need to go back to PD004 and 5 to set the max frequency and base frequency for 60Hz. Then go to PD141 thru 144 to set the motor parameters from the nameplate.

PS: Sorry, I couldn't see your posts of the manual at first, now it appears your manual is different from mine. Can't help.

PPS: I got hold of that manual, it IS a Huanyang HY series drive, but apparently Isacon Power Control Ltd., a supplier of high speed spindles, is altering the programming as an OEM for their specific spindle motors. So they don't allow you full access to the VFD programming for running other motors, probably because that would put them in conflict with Huanyang directly. They have created a custom programming set and have left out the motor data parameters, likely because they intend it to only be used on THEIR specific motors.

Pn032 is the parameter that unlocks the programming, at least within their restricted set. Setting it to "3" and it resets everything to factory presets, but setting it to "2" allows you to set whatever you can.
 
If it is an OEM version....

The good news is that someone MAY have checked it for proper operation.

The BAD news is that it may NOT give you access to the parameters you want to change.

If you are smoking the motor, then it is probable that the volts/Hz curve is set to work with the Isacon spindles. It may be that the thing DOES over-excite the motor, which will fry it eventually. Might have something to do with the odd motor curve you showed. That DOES give a boosted V/Hz at "low" speeds, and with a high speed spindle, what is considered "LOW" is pretty high for a normal motor.

Not unusual for the spindle motor to need 300Hz or more, which means that the curve may be really hitting your motor at 60 Hz. And not unusual for the spindle motor to take higher current at slower speeds, to keep the torque up. The motors often have fewer turns of heavier wire due to their special performance needs, and laugh off currents that fry regular motors.

It may be time to cut losses and move on to a general purpose unit, if the appropriate access to "normal" parameters is not possible.
 
I think you might be right. If I can't tune it to my motor I guess it's time to bite the bullet and get a better drive.

It looks like they have in fact limited operation of their VFD to their cheesy router motors.

Any suggestions for a VFD in the $300 or less range
 
HY Inverter manual is online. http://www.jinlantrade.com/ebay/invertermanual.pdf

The motor parameters can set in the HY VFDs, parameters PD141-PD144. You should set the base frequency PD004 to 60.00 and start with the maximum operating frequency PD005 to 60.00. Although the VFD will operate up to 400Hz, that is not the normal default setup.PD008 maximum voltage should match your motor voltage. Check the carrier frequency PD041, it should be set to 5 which corresponds to 4 kHz which is ok. On an older motors I would start with something in the 2-5 (kHz)range to begin with, higher can cause more insulation breakdown, it can whine quite a bit at the lower Hz range. The default setting is constant torque, V/Hz which should work in your setting. This model does not have sensorless vector or motor tuning.

Setting PD013 to 08 does a factory reset. I am not a big fan of HY VFDs, but if the parameters are set correctly and your motor still smokes, it is more likely an issue with the motor than the VFD. Make sure the motor voltage box wiring matches the VFD. I have worked with enough of these VFDs, that if they work out of the box, then they usually do OK. But I do not expect much out of them, there programming is limited and they are often missing functions like the braking module for an external braking resistor. There power/motor terminals are undersized and although there models up to 5Hp are dual rated for single phase or three phase input, I have doubts about their long term reliability. Just about any other VFD is better, Hitachi WJ200, Teco 7300CV, ABB ACS355 etc. are a few to consider.
 

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HY Inverter manual is online. http://www.jinlantrade.com/ebay/invertermanual.pdf

The motor parameters can set in the HY VFDs, parameters PD141-PD144. You should set the base frequency PD004 to 60.00 and start with the maximum operating frequency PD005 to 60.00. Although the VFD will operate up to 400Hz, that is not the normal default setup.PD008 maximum voltage should match your motor voltage. Check the carrier frequency PD041, it should be set to 5 which corresponds to 4 kHz which is ok. On an older motors I would start with something in the 2-5 (kHz)range to begin with, higher can cause more insulation breakdown, it can whine quite a bit at the lower Hz range. The default setting is constant torque, V/Hz which should work in your setting. This model does not have sensorless vector or motor tuning.

Setting PD013 to 08 does a factory reset. I am not a big fan of HY VFDs, but if the parameters are set correctly and your motor still smokes, it is more likely an issue with the motor than the VFD. Make sure the motor voltage box wiring matches the VFD. I have worked with enough of these VFDs, that if they work out of the box, then they usually do OK. But I do not expect much out of them, there programming is limited and they are often missing functions like the braking module for an external braking resistor. There power/motor terminals are undersized and although there models up to 5Hp are dual rated for single phase or three phase input, I have doubts about their long term reliability. Just about any other VFD is better, Hitachi WJ200, Teco 7300CV, ABB ACS355 etc. are a few to consider.
That's what I posted earlier, his manual is different. Same part number, different manual, that's why I suggested it's likely a customized OEM version and the OEM created a customized parameter list. Different parameter numbers and everything.
 
Those parameters are not accessible from the control. It does have the p/w in the manual to access the software if one cared to.

I think I'll cut my losses on this thing. Are there advantages to the Teco 7300 over FM 50 or 100?

I also like the Allen Bradley power flex 40. Is that a viable option?
 
Those parameters are not accessible from the control. It does have the p/w in the manual to access the software if one cared to.

I think I'll cut my losses on this thing. Are there advantages to the Teco 7300 over FM 50 or 100?

I also like the Allen Bradley power flex 40. Is that a viable option?
FM 50 and 100 are both obsolete and neither are Vector Drives, which are a good choice for machine tools because they are better at low speed torque. The Teco 7300 is a Vector Drive, as is the PF40. PF 40 is a better drive, but typically more expensive. Prices are dropping on them however because they too are getting "long in the tooth" and even though the PF40s are still valid, there is a newer A-B drive out now that is a better drive for less money (new). So people are dumping used or NOS PF40 spares as they upgrade to the new series, which is good for the secondary market.
 








 
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