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Thread: Motor hook up

  1. #1
    RetiredLE's Avatar
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    Default Motor hook up

    Have a 2 hp 115/230 volt single phase motor on a lathe drive unit that I need help with.

    I have no idea what the motor was hooked up to power wise.

    Of the six wires coming out of the housing, three are hooked up to a length of armored cable and three are sticking out loose. The wires are numbered and I have included a photo showing the labels.

    Any help would be appreciated as I don't want to hook it up wrong and damage it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails loewe-lathe-power-unit-photos-002.jpg   loewe-lathe-power-unit-wires.jpg  

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    TDegenhart is online now Stainless
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    Several questions. What voltage do you want to connect to and which rotation direction. Do you want to reverse direction? Couple of things about your photos. One, there should be a wiring diagram on the motor label or on the inside of the wiring chamber cover plate. Two, check the J11 markings. This not normally part of a dual voltage single phase motor. Which wires are connected to the wires in the armored cable.

    Motor Connection Diagrams

    Check this WEB site out. They have typical connection diagrams.

    Tom

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    RetiredLE's Avatar
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    I can go either way. 220 would probably be best.

    I do need for it to be reversible. There is a control switch/box mounted to the front of the lathe that has three control buttons (Forward, Reverse, and Off) alongside of it is another larger control box with what look like switches or relays inside. Can post a pic of that if needed.

    The only plate I have is the data plate that is screwed to the housing on the motor. It doesn't show any diagram - just the specs.

    Not sure what a J11 marking is?

    The wires that are connected to the length of armored cable are T1, T4 and T5. The three short loose ones are T2, T3 and J10.

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    Take a picture of whatever data plate there is on the motor and post it.

    Tom,
    That is a cool link, I just added it to my favorites.

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    Here is the data plate.

    I had to remove it to photograph it due to it's out of the way location.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails loewe-lathe-power-unit-photos-001.jpg  

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    TDegenhart is online now Stainless
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    What you are telling us doesn't make sense. For the motor to be standard, dual voltage single phase and reversible, you should have eight wires coming into the j box from inside the motor. What you will need to do is open the box with the relays (when used to control motors, we call them contactors). Take a picture of that box and point out where the power wires are connected and the wires from the armored cable.

    Tom

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    Unfortunately this is what happens when you purchase something that is not in running or operational condition. My frustration now becomes yours!

    When you say J Box I am assuming you are referring to the junction box?

    If so, there are only six wires coming from inside the housing on the motor.

    There is a control box and control switch box on the front of the lathe which also has a armored cable coming from it with only two wires in it.

    There is a hole in the backside of the control box where I am assuming another armored cable entered/exited.

    See the attached pics for a better idea of what I am trying to describe.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails loewe-lathe-power-unit-control-panel-one.jpg   loewe-lathe-power-unit-control-panel-two.jpg   loewe-lathe-power-unit-control-panel-three.jpg   loewe-lathe-power-unit-control-panel-four.jpg  

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    Found a couple more neat reference sheets.

    http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/ElectricMotors.pdf

    http://catalog.wegelectric.com/img/Wiring_Diagrams.pdf

    None refer to the "J10" wire.
    Looks like someone played around with the wiring (between the motor and controls).
    Take a look at the WEG guide, they show a 6 wire motor hookup on the bottom half of page 183. I'd try hooking it up like shown in that diagram, assuming that the "J10" lead is depicted as 8 in the diagram. Try hooking it up both ways swapping 5 & 10 to reverse direction. Once you get that figured out you can wrestle with the controls. You may damage the motor, but there is risk with any reward. I looked all over online trying to find any literature for that motor with no luck. Wait a day to see if anyone can dig up any better info, and if not I'd give it a try.

    Join 2,3 & 10 together.
    Join 1,5 & L1.
    Join 4 to L2. ....and see what happens when you apply 240VAC

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    TDegenhart is online now Stainless
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    There are three wire nuts in the motor j-box with T1, T4 and t5. What are the wires joined to these?
    Tom

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    ALshooter is offline Plastic
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    This may not apply here, but I have a Baldor motor that has J10 & J11 on the wiring diagram separate from the standard connections. It says something like~ "temperature sensor-if provided"

    Maybe it is for a thermal protection circuit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TDegenhart View Post
    There are three wire nuts in the motor j-box with T1, T4 and t5. What are the wires joined to these?
    Tom
    They are joined to three wires that run down the armored cable which is about four feet long. The other ends of the wires exit the armored cable and aren't connected to anything. They WERE connected to something apparently but I don't know to what.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails loewe-lathe-power-unit-control-panel-four.jpg  

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    robvds is offline Cast Iron
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    Without getting myself to into this, the double magnetic contactor you show is normal for reversing a single phase motor. The net difference between their connections is to interchange 5&8.This may help you backtrace.
    Rob

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    That makes sense. The control buttons send current which energizes one of the contact switches at a time and they in turn send the current to the motor.

    The missing link is how the current is transferred to the motor. Hate to go the trial and error route and damage the motor.....

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    TDegenhart is online now Stainless
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    I guess the next step is to ring out the motor.

    Disconnect all the wires from the motor. Take the cover off the capacitor. With an ohm meter, identify which wires are connected in the motor and their resistances. You may very well find the other J wire comes from the capacitor.

    Tom

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    metalmagpie is offline Hot Rolled
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetiredLE View Post
    Here is the data plate. I had to remove it to photograph it due to it's out of the way location.
    I have had luck reading out of the way data plates by using a small digital camera set in macro mode with flash on, and just holding the camera down behind the motor and shooting the nameplate, often several times, then processing the pictures to retrieve various bits of data. Eventually I get what I need WITHOUT having to take anything apart.

    metalmagpie

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    "The missing link is how the current is transferred to the motor. Hate to go the trial and error route and damage the motor..."

    The machine has a reversing magnetic motor starter, perhaps unique in a single-phase machine, but a nice feature none the less.

    I suspect the GE control unit is intended for three-phase applications, but it could be used for single-phase applications as well. It has two overloads, which is normal for older three-phase controls.

    When utilizing a reversing three-phase control in a single-phase application, you have the choice of reversing the start winding or reversing the run winding, but not both as reversing both will simply select FWD all the time or REV all the time.

    When wired for 230 volts, one lead of the start winding is tied to the junction of two of the run winding leads thereby creating a center tap. It should come as no surprise that a 115/230 volt motor always starts on 115 volts. That is, the start winding is designed for 115 volts, only, even though the run winding is designed for either 115 volts or 230 volts.

    Therefore, a 115/230 volt single-phase motor actually has four wires when wired for 115 volts, but only three when wired for 230 volts.

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    When utilizing a three-phase reversing magnetic motor starter in a single-phase application, the following considerations apply:

    1) L1 is connected to phase A,

    2) L2 is connected to phase C,

    3) phase B is connected to either L1 or L2, whichever gives the machine the proper rotation when FWD or REV is selected,

    4) there are actually two independent magnetic motor starters, which are electrically and mechanically interlocked so that FWD and REV may not be simultaneously selected,

    5) in FWD mode, L1 is passed-through to T1 and L2 is passed-through to T4; in REV mode, L1 is passed-through to T4 and L2 is passed-through to T1,

    6) in either FWD or REV modes, phase B is passed-through to one lead of the start winding (often T5), and

    7) the other lead of the start winding (often T6) is connected to the center the two run windings, which are connected in series (usually T2 and T3, as the beginning and ending of the run windings are T1 and T4).

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    Default Sounding less like Greek and more like English

    I did a bit of rudimentary electrical detective work yesterday with a multi meter set to the continuity setting:

    I found that the left magnetic start breaker is energized when I push the Forward button on the three button control box and the right magnetic start breaker is energized when I push the Reverse button.

    So, which wires from the motor would be connected to which breaker. And would the remaining wires coming out of the motor be connected to each other or left loose but covered?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails loewe-lathe-power-control-unit.jpg  

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    Well, two out of the three wires are going to go to the lower connection of the two overloads. These would be the run winding connections.

    The remaining wire is going to go to the middle of the three functional connections of the reversing starters. This would be the start winding connection.

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    Well, two out of the three wires are going to go to the lower connection of the two overloads. These would be the run winding connections.

    Which of the following would go to the lower connection? T1, T2, T3, T4, T5 or J10. Would one wire go to the left overload and one to the right overload?

    The remaining wire is going to go to the middle of the three functional connections of the reversing starters. This would be the start winding connection.
    Which wire would it be? T1, T2, T3, T4, T5 or J10. And on which breaker would it be attached to - the left one or the right one? There are actually four sets of two connectors on the top of each breaker.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails loewe-lathe-control-junction-box-one.jpg   loewe-lathe-control-junction-box-two.jpg  

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