Motor/power right forum?

[Bitfodder]

I just got an FP1, I'm wondering if this or the transformer/vfd forum could point me in the right direction for a non 3phase garage.

The motor is model R 45 n 84
440V 2 Speed

Anyone have a similar motor and no 3 phase? What solution did you settle on? Regrets?

Thanks for any help!

[motion guru]

https://www.google.com/search?q=fp1 ????

[Milacron]

https://www.google.com/search?q=fp1 ????

He means Deckel FP1...the first generation style with one motor hanging out the rear on a platform, driving the whole works (spindles, feed and coolant) via pulley and V belt. You need both 230/440 3 phase transformer and phase converter... or change the motor to single phase....assuming the motor isn't two speed...which it might be.

Do you have a seperate electrical box or are all the contactors contained in the body of the mill ?



This isn't his...but like his..

[Bitfodder]

Thanks milacron. This post was moved from the deckel forum... Had I known it would be moved, I would have been more specific. Sorry for the vague topic.

I believe it is a two speed, 840/1700 (from plate). The mill came with a general signal heavy duty transformer HT series.

Does this motor type, preclude using static phase converters or VFD?


No separate electrical box/cabinet. There is a big on/off switch mounted on the side that is not original. That picture is very much like my mill.

[JST]

Effectively precludes most static converters, which generally are for 230V only. There may be 440 versions, but I have never investigated them. Going through the transformer.... nope, wouldn't fool with it.

There are plenty of 440V VFDs, but fewer with a reasonable single phase derate..... your best idea is to use a single phase transformer to get from 230 to 440, and then a 440V VFD with a suitable single phase derate to get your 3 phase.

Going through the transformer from the VFD is "theoretically " workable, but it has a lot of issues in practice. I have never seen it work as expected, although I have seen it "kinda work".

[Bitfodder]

Thanks for your reply, time to do some further homework.

[john11668]

I am in the UK so on 50 Hz.
I have essentially the same machine and I chose to change the motor to a dual volts model I could run at 3ph 230v. I then bought a single phase 230v inverter with sensorless vector control to go with it .

Here are a couple of links ( UK prices ) but you should be able to get something close
TEC Electric Motors TECA2 IE2 1.5kW (2HP) 3ph AC Motor - 230V/400V 2 Pole 90 Frame B3 Foot Mount - AC Motors (Three Phase)
LS Starvert iC5 - 1.5kW 230V 1ph to 3ph - AC Flux Vector Drive Speed Controller - AC Inverter Drives (230V)

Beyond this you will need a new taper lock pulley but all works well on mine.
Then you can ditch the bulky cabinet that comes with the machine.

[jim rozen]

My first thought on this would be to replace the motor with a single speed, of about 2 hp or so. Maybe 1.5 hp, motor to be 240 volt
three phase type. Then power via a sensorless vector VFD of 240 volt input type.

If the alternate route of step-up transformer, to 440 volt VFD were chosen, one would still need to probably lock the motor
in high range so it effectively becomes single speed.

Another possible route is rotary converter and step-up transformer, or step-up and then rotary.

Basically in an installation like this one wants to optimize for several things at once, some of which are contradictory:

1) lowest cost to convert

2) neatest installation

3) ease of use

4) retention of original features on machine

Some guidance can be gotten by investigation local sources of the various parts needed to do the conversion.

For example, if a nearly free 2hp motor is available locally, and it will fit the installation well, that points in one direction.
If a step-up transformer is on hand or easily obtained, that points in another direction.

More than one way to skin this cat. But for me the motor change and 240 volt VFD gives some of the nicest
control and smallest, neatest setup.

[9100]

I ran a two speed motor on a static converter for years. It was for 230 V and I sized the run capacitors so it would start on the low speed setting without separate starting capacitors. Then I added starting capacitors that were connected by a current sensing relay, a standard relay with an AC coil with a shading pole but with the voltage winding stripped off and a few turns of 12 or 14 ga. enameled wire in series with the line. The starting surge would pull it in on high speed and it dropped out when the motor got up to speed. It didn't pull in on low speed starts. It took some tinkering with the relay spring and capacitor sizes, but I used it for about 8 yeas with good results. The higher voltage capacitors for 440 V might be harder to find, but there is no reason it couldn't be done. It didn't give full power, but I did a lot of work with it.

Bill

[JST]

BTW, Milacron didn't say it, likely sidetracked by Deckel content (), but the title is meaningless...... *should* be closed for that problem.

[jim rozen]

There must be some kind of web-bot here that rings a bell whenever the word 'deckel' is in a post. Likewise the word
'atlas.'

Atlas Deckel Atlas Deckel Atlas Deckel.

What'll it do, preserve forever, or cancel immediately?

[Bitfodder]

Being new to this forum, it seems I have have a bit to learn on the etiquette. Hopefully, I'll learn quickly.
Perhaps a sticky on posting guidelines for new users may eliminate some newbie annoyance.

Thanks to all for the information provided. I'm looking into replacing the original motor with a 2 hp motor and a VFD.