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OT - dating a Stanley No 8 plane - maybe Type 5 or 6?

mfisher

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Location
Annapolis, Maryland
Spent a week on vacation in southern NJ at the beach. Had to come back with something small, and found this at an indoor/outdoor antique/decor shop. Unfortunately, after lasting for over 100 years, it spent the last couple outdoors (sigh).

Anyway, I already had a No 6 and 7, so I figured I could add a No 8 to the collection for a few bucks. The patina is as found, but it isn't as bad as it looks. Once I got the yellow jackets out of it, along with some of the rust and sand it will be usable.
Handle has the typical top piece cracked off.


Going through some of the other sites, things are a bit cloudy as to the dates, but there seems to be a bit of phasing things in and out sometimes.

The main casting does not have anything other than 'No 8' cast in.
The lateral adjuster has two dates stamped in, along with 'Stanley'. Does that make it a Type 5?
The brass adjusting nut is just under 1" and is left hand threaded. Shouldn't that make it a Type 6?
There is no stamping in the brass adjuster nut.
The blade has 'Stanley', something illegible, and hard to say... is this the 'PAT. AP'L 19,92'
No ring cast around the front knob.
Lever cap has an 'S' cast in the back of it, and a symmetric keyhole. Type 7 feature, but maybe this is also on earlier ones?

So - any experts out there that care to date it?

My current thoughts is that it can't be a Type 5, 1885 to 1888, unless the blade was switched.
Type 6 due to left hand thread and no words on the adjuster?

Thanks in advance.
 
Couple more pieces of information:

Overall length is 23 11/16"
Lateral adjuster is two piece version

The sides have flat tops, which would imply a Bedrock version, but there is no adjuster screw to move the frog forward. Could it be that a previous owner 'improved' a Bailey version to be a Bedrock version by cutting down the curved sides? Side walls are 1 7/8" high for what that is worth. If it was modified, it was done pretty neatly. Or did very early Bedrock planes not have the adjustment screw for moving the frog forward?

If it is a Bedrock, one of the various Type 1's?

And I will say, that I was expecting at least a 'you bought a rusty piece of crap that at one time long ago a valuable tool, but is now a door stop', or perhaps 'it's a shame that it got left outside'. Granted, this is a woodworking tool, but considering some of the past plane discussions, I would have thought this would have gotten at least some response.
 
I'm going to guess 1950 or so, it's far from scrap, requires a grind if you have a surface grinder but a good big belt sander will fix it, the blade can be resharpened, parts are available. Mine wasn't much better when I bought it at a boot sale, it will take a shaving like a net curtain now, good exercise too!
Mark
 
If you had this thread in the woodworking forum here there are a lot of experts there. My father is a collector/user, the knob to adjust the blade depth made of brass dates it, as does the knob and tote. I think yours is earlier with the low, squatty knob. Hopefully others will chime in.
Joe
 
Moderator - please move to woodworking to correct my incompetence

You are right, if I had just remembered to post in the woodworking forum... But my few brain cells didn't pull that thought off at the time needed.

Maybe I can get the moderator to move this, or perhaps if the woodworking moderator can take it.

Milacron, stephen thomas - if either of you see this, can you please move to the woodworking forum?
 
I'm no expert, but I think you have a Type 5 with later parts.
The body and frog seem to be Type 5, but the adjuster and iron,as you said, seems to have characteristics of Type 6.
I've read that some Stanley planes are a mix of types, as changes were made and old parts were used on newer planes. I think this is what you have.
It's definitely not a Bedrock, unfortunately. The flat-top Bedrocks were all marked "Bedrock" on the bodies, and were introduced in 1911.I think that, as you suspect, someone cut the sides down. It's not going to affect the usability of the plane at all, though.
I think you should clean it up and use it.It would be a great user plane!
Rick W
 
Ignore the iron for dating these. They were often replaced in the days that a workman used his hand tools all day, every day. I've worn out new plane irons in a number of planes, though not yet quite a full blade in a #8. I have used up 1, and almost through the second, in a number 6 bought new by me in the late 70's.

Looking at the bed, the single, centralized "8" (not "No 8") suggests a pre-type 6 though the larger planes perhaps did not hew to this model exactly. Lack of fillets at the cross rib indicates type 3 or later, as does what I can see of the adjuster knob.

The shape and milling of the frog receiver suggest a type 4. Everything about the bed suggests a type 4. Except that yours has the first lateral style lever. Which would seem to bump it to a type 5.

My guess is as others have alluded, your plane bed started life in the factory as a type 4
casting (1874 - 1884) & was at least partially machined and fit as such. However, before it went out the door, it was finished with a later frog and new-fangled lateral lever by the time it was sent off to retail. Almost all of Stanley's production up well into the 20th C was on the subcontractor basis (piece rate). A foreman, often an inventor, basically ran the department in the Stanley factory, but pay to the department was based solely on production, not "hours". When you are on piece rate, you get anything acceptable out the door and don't waste any loose materials or partial work.

An alternate possibility is that someone who had the means to machine the tops of the cheeks flat (admittedly, they could have been hacksawed and filed), may have decided to add the frog with a lateral lever to an earlier plane. Perhaps after dropping and breaking the donor plane. I don't really think this is likely. Though I often see boxes of parts at auctions. It could also have been "completed" from parts in the last few decades merely to make it usable or sale-able. The person who completed it could also have chopped the top in hopes of fooling a casual buyer into thinking it was a Bedrock. However, early bedrocks (before 1911) had rounded top sides much like/looked like the regular bench planes.

So, most likely a late type 4 casting that left the factory after the first lateral became available. Or possibly a user modified "hot rod" of a type 4 with the high performance lateral frog addition & including the equivalent of a flame paint job by chopping the tops.

smt, who had been pushing a type 6 No 8 all week in MD.

BTW - Stanley did not care about "type dating" planes or any other tools. All they cared about was using up inventory and selling the heck out of it. The "type studies" were evolved by later scholars to help sort out the history/evolution. But again, back at the factory
Stanley was only interested in selling product and avoiding waste.
 
I would disassemble and dunk in a washing soda bath and run current to the metal to displace the rust. If the sole of the plane is no flat but corrugated then a belt sander is not what I would use. A flat plate of glass with some paper would do it. The handle is easy to make. The Japan black finish that was once on the top is disappointing but something better than a rattle can should be used. In the end the metal will lokk pitted but the plane will still work.
 








 
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