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OT - Need source for non-plasticized nitro-cellulose lacquer?

richard newman

Titanium
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Location
rochester, ny
Anyone know where I could find small quantities of gloss nitro-cellulose furniture lacquer without plasticizers added?

I want to replicate the cold checking often seen in vintage guitars, especially Gibson flat tops.

From what I understand the manufacturers will sell me a 55 gal drum, but I only need a gallon at most.
 
Find some bright acetate satin fabric. Wash it to remove all the lubricant applied during processing. Dissolve the fabric in acetone and you will have cellulose acetate lacquer. You might also contact a process or development engineer at Celanese at Narrows, Virginia. They manufacture cellulose acetate from cellulose paper. The dope is wet spun into fibers for cigarette filters and acetate fabrics. You want to get clear acetate without any titanium dioxide added to make it translucent or opaque.

Jim
 
Thanks for the suggestions, but I don't want to make my own lacquer, it's more complicated than just disolving nitrocellulose in acetone.

Stewmac is a great source, but the instrument lacquers they sell are even more plasticized than furniture lacquers, to prevent just the effect I'm trying to achieve
 
Run some experiments with car clear coat - top coat you want the 1K. All of the wood products out there will be plasticised to avoid it happening. I know when i have used it before on wood i have got exactly the same effect (not for a guitar mind you but something else i had to repair and blend in to that look). Because its designed to go on reasonably solid materials it cracks with the natural movement in wood. You want the single part stuff in spray tins. Halfords own brand laquer always use to do it when applied on wooden items. You also have to build up a nice thick coat, too thin and it does not crack the same. You want the wood item dryer than normal so it expands with moisture to open the cracks once the finish has dried hard.

Helps to bake it once its dry (not too hot or it discolours) and even then its a finish that develops at its own pace, swings in humidity and temp really help it take effect, my job post bakeing and sitting for a month outside above a bucket of water went into and out of a large industrial freezer every day for about a week to get it to match in right. One of thoes bonkers things but it paid stupid well, kinda a bit like art forgery, you can make the item perfect with bold vivid colours and its worthless, make it back into a 60 year old relic and its worth a mint!
 
Worth adding for a guitar you would not want to do a spot repair, do the whole thing and it will be even - look right. Spot repairs will look really wrong.
 
Or you could just ship the prized guitar across the country in winter...that really worked well to cold crack my Gallagher top finish....

Just curious, are you wanting the look, or do non plasticized lacquers sound better?
 
I have a 1956 Gibson Souther Jumbo, bought, on ebay which had the back poorly refinished at some time. Besides other repairs, I want to refinish the back properly. The rest of the guitar is pretty cold checked, would like to get the same sort of look so the back doesn't stand out too badly.

This is more about mojo than tone, but i could imagine that if the lacquer is too thick, as was often the case with Gibson, finish checking might allow the top to vibrate more freely. I've known people who have had the finish thinned out by sanding to improve tone, can't remember if it really worked. But if they think it did...

stoneaxe - Gallaghers are nice guitars,when was yours made? I was just talking to a friend with one and he mentioned having his replaced by them because of problems with the finish. He was told that the materials they used for a certain time period had caused them all sorts of grief. You might want to contact them if the checking bothers you. I've come to sort of like the look for vintage guitars.
 
My local druggist has a book with recipes for a thousand things like this (drugstores here deal in everything from chemicals to light bulbs, no drugs- that's the pharmacy), might take a week or two but I'll try to dig one up for nitrocellulose lacquer. About 99.9% sure it's in there- or he can order small quantities if it's in production.
 
I have a 1956 Gibson Souther Jumbo, bought, on ebay which had the back poorly refinished at some time. Besides other repairs, I want to refinish the back properly. The rest of the guitar is pretty cold checked, would like to get the same sort of look so the back doesn't stand out too badly.

This is more about mojo than tone, but i could imagine that if the lacquer is too thick, as was often the case with Gibson, finish checking might allow the top to vibrate more freely. I've known people who have had the finish thinned out by sanding to improve tone, can't remember if it really worked. But if they think it did...

stoneaxe - Gallaghers are nice guitars,when was yours made? I was just talking to a friend with one and he mentioned having his replaced by them because of problems with the finish. He was told that the materials they used for a certain time period had caused them all sorts of grief. You might want to contact them if the checking bothers you. I've come to sort of like the look for vintage guitars.

mine was purchased in 1973, from J.W. I visited him once on a cross country drive, the shop is in a rural part of Tenn. I recently replaced the neck, as it was old, thin, twisted and had the compression rod pulling out from the anchor point. You could check my thread on Acoustic Guitar Forum for details, they gave me a lot of assistance with things like neck angle, etc. Sort of funny, I had the reverse problems of most newbies to guitar building- the actual woodwork,since I have spent a lifetime doing custom work, was not too hard-- KNOWING what to do, that was the tough part! It is a fine sounding guitar, the stiffer neck really helped both the play-ability and sound.
 
I'm in a similar position to you, spent my entire life as a pro woodworker and have a great shop, but guitars have always been mysterious to me. Banjos are simple, just some parts to make and assemble, but making a guitar seemed like writing poetry. Now I'm not so intimidated, going to give it a try this winter after all these years of avoidance. Taking an a guitar repair class at the Augusta Heritage Workshops made it feel more like just another woodworking job, but with way thinner wood.
 
You could try with a small brush applying denatured alcohol into one of the checks and see what happens.

The stuff often is labeled as lacquer thinner and usually will soften it right up and if carefull it will reflow and cure.

The old stuff was sold in what looked like corn flakes and you mixed it up...Or was that just shelack... (spelling wrong)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
 
The old stuff was sold in what looked like corn flakes and you mixed it up...Or was that just shelack...
That was indeed shellac, nothing to do with nitrocellulose lacquer at all. Denatured alcohol is the proper solvent for shellac, but does (next to) nothing for lacquer. Lacquer thinner might contain some alcohol (lacquer thinners contain all sorts of things, even in the pre-VOC restriction days), but I would not consider alcohol to be lacquer thinner.
 








 
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