Lanso
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2013
- Location
- Cerritos, CA
Anyone have a favorite router with minimum runout?
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Router collet runout
- Thread starter Lanso
- Start date
- Replies 13
- Views 5,827
Sachmanram
Stainless
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2011
- Location
- New Brunswick, Canada
It never would have occurred to me to check the runout on a router's collet. I have a Bosch, Freud and a Triton... all 3hp and all work smoothly with no vibration and produce very smooth cuts. I am curious as to why you would ask that, but it also makes me want to see for myself, what kind of accuracy there is in the spindles.
Brian
Brian
macgyver
Stainless
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2012
- Location
- Pittsburg, KS
I ran across this company while looking for something else. They were recommended by someone running the PC router in a cnc. They have high precision collets for the PC hand routers and others. I have not had a need to buy anything from them so I don't have any firsthand knowledge.
http://www.precisebits.com/products/equipment/porter-cable_0429_kits.asp
Jason
http://www.precisebits.com/products/equipment/porter-cable_0429_kits.asp
Jason
wawoodman
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2006
- Location
- Seattle, WA
I hesitate to call BS, but, in over 50 years of woodworking, both hobby and professional, I have never felt that router bit runout was an issue.
rons
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
- Location
- California, USA
Woodworking accuracy is not the same as in metal working. Then you add the moisture content issue, species of wood, seasonal movement, sanding and/or scraping. Any router is going to be levels more accurate than a molding plane. And molding planes are what was used before the router.
Two Words to know: Porter & Cable.
Two Words to forget: Black and Decker.
Two Words to know: Porter & Cable.
Two Words to forget: Black and Decker.
macgyver
Stainless
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2012
- Location
- Pittsburg, KS
I have never had the need myself for anything different than what PC offers with their routers. I would say that if I were using very tiny cutters that I would probably get a kit to upgrade the collet system, as much for the runout claimed as for getting rid of the adapter bushing that I would have to use for a 1/8" or smaller shank tools.
Also, not trying to start an argument, but saying that woodworking is not as accurate as metal working is very vague and generalizing. I could say the opposite just for arguments sake; lots of operations while doing woodwork are at a much higher accuracy than say fabricating a weldment or cutting with a hand held plasma or oxyfuel torch, or grinding to the line with a hand grinder. These are all 'metalworking' categories that can have huge wide open tolerances. Woodworking has the same need for different levels of accuracy. If we are talking to the Nth degree only, then yes, I doubt that anyone in wood is holding microns, but there might be someone in a lab somewhere that is, idk.
Also, not trying to start an argument, but saying that woodworking is not as accurate as metal working is very vague and generalizing. I could say the opposite just for arguments sake; lots of operations while doing woodwork are at a much higher accuracy than say fabricating a weldment or cutting with a hand held plasma or oxyfuel torch, or grinding to the line with a hand grinder. These are all 'metalworking' categories that can have huge wide open tolerances. Woodworking has the same need for different levels of accuracy. If we are talking to the Nth degree only, then yes, I doubt that anyone in wood is holding microns, but there might be someone in a lab somewhere that is, idk.
Lanso
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2013
- Location
- Cerritos, CA
I guess I'll answer my own question:
I just bought 2 Bosch routers expecting to keep the best one and they were so good I'm keeping both!
Sorry to start you guys thinking but the next time you're running a big bit you might be more likely to feel vibration.
I just bought 2 Bosch routers expecting to keep the best one and they were so good I'm keeping both!
Sorry to start you guys thinking but the next time you're running a big bit you might be more likely to feel vibration.
WHHJR
Stainless
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2009
- Location
- Near:Louisville, KY
Considering the speeds involved (10 to 20 K rpm) I suspect 0.001 or more runout would be quite noticeable in a hand held tool.
2¢
2¢
wawoodman
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2006
- Location
- Seattle, WA
Only two routers? I've got at least 10. 
if the bit is so big that it causes vibration, you might want to be running it in a table, or at a slower speed.
if the bit is so big that it causes vibration, you might want to be running it in a table, or at a slower speed.
Lanso
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2013
- Location
- Cerritos, CA
I said I bought two today that doesn't mean I have only two.
chefjuke
Plastic
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
- Location
- Oregon, United States
All,
I believe these precision collets are aimed at the CNC router market When using small bits and trying to do precision CNC milling, especially in aluminum seems most folks want less runout than most woodworkers want/need for general woodworking.
And as a woodworker who is learning machining, I'll jump into that 'not-started' argument. What rons said was "Woodworking accuracy is not the same as in metal working" which is a little different than "woodworking is not as accurate as metal working".
What I believe he meant was that the tolerances in metalworking (or, more specifically, Machining, are far smaller than in woodworking.
When I started learning woodworking, if I was 1/16th off, I would make do and call it good.t....in machining you are dealing in tolerances measured in thousandths of an inch. I think that's what rons was getting at. So if you are using a router for a CNC milling aluminum, you would be more concerned about runout than if you were using that router for woodworking.
Your mileage may vary.
-CJ
I believe these precision collets are aimed at the CNC router market When using small bits and trying to do precision CNC milling, especially in aluminum seems most folks want less runout than most woodworkers want/need for general woodworking.
And as a woodworker who is learning machining, I'll jump into that 'not-started' argument. What rons said was "Woodworking accuracy is not the same as in metal working" which is a little different than "woodworking is not as accurate as metal working".
What I believe he meant was that the tolerances in metalworking (or, more specifically, Machining, are far smaller than in woodworking.
When I started learning woodworking, if I was 1/16th off, I would make do and call it good.t....in machining you are dealing in tolerances measured in thousandths of an inch. I think that's what rons was getting at. So if you are using a router for a CNC milling aluminum, you would be more concerned about runout than if you were using that router for woodworking.
Your mileage may vary.
-CJ
stephen thomas
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2001
Yabbut the effect of out-of-round, or unjointed cutters in wood is worse than in metal, due to the feedrates & the fact that almost everything is "appearance".
I've posted the geometry before: a very small lack of concentricity yields a very visible scallop/ripple effect with a multiflute cutter running at multiflute feedrate. Most routers show it. We sand or scrape to get rid of it on appearance stuff.
As posted above, it is not ideal. OTOH, the radii are relatively small. I run a french head in the router often enough in gnarly grain. It is ground with a balance flute, but essentially it is one-knife cutting for best smoothness. (you just have to feed slower than a multi-flute bit).
So, yeah, i can see the theory behind a perfect collet system. But what we generally receive in most good commercial routers is pretty good. At some point, the bearings would be a factor.
smt
I've posted the geometry before: a very small lack of concentricity yields a very visible scallop/ripple effect with a multiflute cutter running at multiflute feedrate. Most routers show it. We sand or scrape to get rid of it on appearance stuff.
As posted above, it is not ideal. OTOH, the radii are relatively small. I run a french head in the router often enough in gnarly grain. It is ground with a balance flute, but essentially it is one-knife cutting for best smoothness. (you just have to feed slower than a multi-flute bit).
So, yeah, i can see the theory behind a perfect collet system. But what we generally receive in most good commercial routers is pretty good. At some point, the bearings would be a factor.
smt
Bill D
Diamond
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2004
- Location
- Modesto, CA USA
Even if the collet was perfect, which it never can be, the spindle bore is going to be off somewhat. And then of course the bearings are not much more accurate then motor grade bearings are they ?
I have never seen specs for the bearing class used for guide bearings on the nose of a router bit. or a shaper top bearing for that matter,.
Bil lD.
I have never seen specs for the bearing class used for guide bearings on the nose of a router bit. or a shaper top bearing for that matter,.
Bil lD.
I have a set of these for my PC in my router table and I measure runout to be less than a thou. Chris Hall, who does some of the most precise woodworking I've come across, recommends these collets as well.
