Saw flange and arbor advice please

macgyver · Sep 24, 2016

I picked up a Greenlee 495 saw and have been going through it and checking it out, adjusting etc. I have indicated the blade flange and arbor and I am getting more runout than I am comfortable with. Runout on the flange face is 0.008" and the arbor runout is the same. I can take care of the flange without much trouble, but the arbor being out would require getting it off the motor and making a new one or turning it down. It is 1" dia now, so really don't want to go smaller.

So, my question is, if I cleanup the flange to run true but leave the arbor alone at this time, will it be a big deal and noticeable?

Have any of you had one of these and had the arbor off? It looks like it is removable, would it be right or left hand thread? The nut to hold the blade on is left hand thread.

Thanks,
Jason

Danny VanVoorn · Sep 24, 2016

I would say .008" is more run out than I want on a saw blade, keep in mind I'm not familiar with the saw in question. If this is a friction saw it will work fine but if it is similar to a cold saw probably not. Any run out on the mounting will be transferred to the blade which means only the high side will cut until those teeth break down and others start doing their work?
I don't have a clue as to removing the arbor.
Dan

atomarc · Sep 24, 2016

The only way the collar can be machined to negate that runout is if the collar is affixed to the arbor so it won't move (shrunk on) and the collar is machine true while it ON the arbor. I have actually mounted a complete saw arbor motor on the carriage of a lathe, powered up the arbor motor and used a tool in the compound to remove a tiny bit of material from the face of the saw flange. This got it to run with zero runout.

Stuart

Edit. A arbor nut comes OFF in the direction of travel of the saw..easy to remember.

henrya · Sep 24, 2016

A picture would sure be useful to answer your question. I think I'd want to improve the run-out you write of.

macgyver · Sep 24, 2016

Thanks, guys, as far as the saw, it is just a big old table saw. Of course I just looked and don't have a pic of the part in question. The catalog pic I added is as close as I can get tonight, it shows the saw with the top off and the blade mechanism tilted but the view is from the wrong side.

It is a direct drive saw, the arbor screws onto the motor shaft, they were offered with a 1.25" arbor as well as the 1" I have.

henrya · Sep 25, 2016

If the bearings are great I'd think about taking the arbor off and checking it for run out, then maybe making a new one if it's determined the old one is faulty.

If the bearings are'nt great then you might want to pull the whole thing apart and fix everything.

Looks like a good project - send another picture.

crzypete · Sep 25, 2016

On my Tannewitz, changing the bearings reduced the arbor run out substantially.

Pete

shapeaholic · Sep 26, 2016

Definitely change the bearings, and while you have the arbor out put it between centers and give it a through checkout.
When you have the bearings out of the motor housing check for the fit of the bearing in the housing. I had one saw that had that problem. A little loctite bearing mount fixed that.
My current unisaw, needs bearings and I expect an improvement in run out when I do that too.

Peter

jlevie · Sep 27, 2016

8 thou at the flange is a lot. Since the arbor screws onto the motor shaft, there could be a registration problem between the arbor and the motor shaft, the arbor could be bent, or the bearings could be bad (as mentioned above). I'd tear it down and check the arbor for run out in a lathe (ideally between centers), but you could probably use a pair of Vee blocks. Then I'd replace the bearings and check the motor shaft for runout.

What to do next depends on what you find to be the cause of the arbor & shaft runout.

FWIW, I bought a brand new 10" Delta Unisaw (made in the USA at that time) that had 4 thou of runout at the flange, but none in the arbor. Delta sent me a replacement arbor (warranty). It was better, but a quick facing of the flange made it darned near perfect (much less than a thou). The Powermatic 10" that I have now is essentially perfect w/respect to runout.

macgyver · Sep 27, 2016

I have been slammed with paying work this past week, stand around twiddling my thumbs for a month and then everyone wants their last minute stuff all on the same day.

Anyway, I have not had a chance to even look at it since I posted. The motor has been to the motor shop recently since their sticker is on it and it has a new paint job. I am hoping that it is more than just the new paint. I have a feeling that it might be bent. I didn't mark both the flange and arbor to see if they match up for being bent. I'll get it off the motor shaft somehow and see if I can figure something out.

CalG · Sep 27, 2016

for .008 I would consider an "in situ" abrasive machining repair. A dremel-tool might be a bit light, but you could use a mounted point in a router and some scraps of wood to fashion a jig.

Just for the flange run out mind you, not trueing the shaft. ;-)

jlevie · Sep 28, 2016

macgyver said:
Anyway, I have not had a chance to even look at it since I posted. The motor has been to the motor shop recently since their sticker is on it and it has a new paint job. I am hoping that it is more than just the new paint. I have a feeling that it might be bent. I didn't mark both the flange and arbor to see if they match up for being bent. I'll get it off the motor shaft somehow and see if I can figure something out.

That suggests that arbor may not have been correctly re-installed on the motor shaft, which could explain the arbor & flange runout.

atomarc · Sep 28, 2016

It probably got worked over with a Dremel and some sandpaper while at the motor shop, you just can't trust those motormen.

Stuart

Scruffy887 · Oct 24, 2016

Reduce run out whatever is the easiest way, simplest way. Your real solution to what you think is a problem will be answered by cutting some wood. Simple as that. Brainless "woodworking" aurtholes rate saws by arbor run-out. A saw blade is a dynamic element when spinning and the blade tips may very well indeed run true at speed as the blade stretches out. The blade will stretch at running RPM.

macgyver · Nov 1, 2016

So, I got to mess with it again today. I thought/hoped the the arbor was a screw on like one of my old shapers, I had read that these were available with a 1.25" arbor so guessed it was interchangeable. I started pulling the flange off and it came off by itself and I think the arbor is integral to the motor. Anyway, short version is I measured the part of the arbor that the flange covered up which is app 1.5" and there is not any noticeable runout, where it necks down to the 1" dia and on to the outer end it has runout, so without getting any farther than that yet, I think it is bent.

Could I apply heat to a specific point and draw it back straighter? I can take care of the flange pretty easily, worst case I may just true up the flange and run it. Rather get it usable than let it set too long.

crzypete · Nov 2, 2016

I wouldn't be overly worried about the arbor as long as you are not running a dorado stack and it is not so bent that the flanges do not lock down securely upon each other. The flange being true is what makes a saw accurate. I would true your flange and then reevaluate the status.

Pete

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Saw flange and arbor advice please

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