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Tongue and dado construction - Her Saf panel router

golash

Aluminum
Joined
May 1, 2005
Location
Northampton Ma
Hi
I ve been constructing my kitchen cabinets for years using biscuits.I am looking into switching to tongue and dado construction.
I am wondering if you used t and d construction and possibly used the her saf panel router. Interested in how
easy it was to use. I like the fact that it works over the top of the work so it maintains dimensional accuracy.
I may attempt to custom build my own panel router due to space issues. The used Her Saf are just too tall for the location
I have for the machine. I have a surplus THK linear rail assembly. It is the largest that THK manufacturers.
The rail is 2 inches square with the sliding blocks 3 x 6 inches. I`m hoping that one will be enough for the design.
It seems most panel routers use a 2 post round rail to track the router up and down. Am wondering if you think
this is a good idea.
DIY construction is not new to me. In the past I`ve built a 3 axis cnc and a combination sander- wide belt sander
for my shop.
DIY Woodworking Machines

Regards Barry
 
Panel Router

Hi All
I`m surprised no one has any advice to offer. Hear is someone that constructed a panel saw. Not precisely the same animal
as a panel router. TS 55 Vertical Panel saw But
close in what I believe are may similiar details. It looks like the tracking is provided by a good sized linear rail.

Barry
 
Your accomplishments are impressive, and if i ever have time to mess with control logic for fixturing, I may pick your brain.

I`m surprised no one has any advice to offer. Hear is someone that constructed a panel saw.

That said, by your own evidence where prices posted on your site, you have way overpaid for the basic iron & capacity on most of the things you have built, compared to just buying a used industrial machine. No fault there since what you make suits your purpose and you have an intrinsic understanding of it based on building it. But it is hard to offer advice: You already seem to know how to do though some of us might not find it cost effective. :)

I use a pin router for some mortising and slotting tasks; but not M & T's. I have a Panhans (brand) slider with hold-down for the rare times it makes sense as a cross-sliding rig on a shaper or pin router rather than a shop built fence. Often for end work, not necessarily tenons, I use a tenoner.

Your rail should be fine. Convenience will be according to how you use it and the sled for the router that you make to attach the tool.

Per your tenon Q. I think anything but M & T where indicated is a waste of time. There are tons of work-arounds, as you know. But most are really only apologies for "why i can't do it right so this is good enough, prove it isn't" lol. Everyone who has never used a tenoner and mortise machine thinks anything possible to avoid it is somehow faster or better. In a way it is, if you don't want to understand and tool them. Onsie/twosies may be faster with portable machines and alternate methods. But for semi-production and up tenoners and auto mortisers are fast and the parts self-align and fixture as they are assembled.

Or keep doing what you want to do if it suits you and your customers.

smt
 
I find the Domino machine to be superior to biscuits. Without a real mortiser and tenoner, I can't see a better alternative. If I was doing multiples, they might be worth having, but not at my level of custom cabinets.
 
More details

Hi
I may have been extremely unclear. The plywood case construction is currently biscuits.The joinery
I`m intending to change to is what I call a lock joint or tongue and dado. I do have a single end
tenoner and use it for my cabinet doors.
Just wondering if you used the lock joint for casework. It seemed to me the lock joint would be
machined easily on a panel router.
Blind-Cut-Rabbet-Joint.jpg
 
IMO, the joint shown is weaker in plywood than biscuits or dowels. It self-aligns and squares well, but the end piece is weak and apt to pop off or crack along the length. For internal dados, it is pretty good.

That said, I use a version for cases from time to time, using hand held routers, the shaper, or sometimes the pin router. Make the tongue thinner and move more inward, to start. I have (shop made) stacked bits that define the tongue with a bearing between. The groove is also done mostly with a hand router, though running it with roller hold-downs on the TS works well, too.

Usually, if I use a version of that joint, the joint is created in a piece of wild grain (for split resistance) hardwood.. Basically, a 1-1/4" wide strip is T & G'd to one flat panel & made flush. Then the groove is created in the other edge face of that strip, and the 90° panel T & G'ed into that. I find that even though this does not fully address the "split off the edge" problem, it is far more split resistant than the layer of plywood edge. Especially when (as stated) gnarly grain is used that is not likely to split straight full length anyway.

The advantage of hand-held tools, or machines that reference the same face you want the dimension from is that they obviate the constant thickness variations in raw plywood if the shop process or the material does not admit of a calibration step. (basically pre-sand to uniform thickness) Face veneers on commercial plywood don't permit this anyway.

For long dados across a wide plywood panel, your router machine, or the cnc you already built would certainly be convenient.

smt
 
Lock joint strength

"the joint shown is weaker in plywood than biscuits or dowels. It self-aligns and squares well, but the end piece is weak and apt to pop off or crack along the length. For internal dados, it is pretty good."

Hi Stephen

The above statement is refreshing my memory. When I made drawers with 1/2 thk materials I would size the tongue a 1/4 by a 1/4.
If I handled the drawers harshly the dado section of the a jointing piece would break the end grain out. This is before I glued them.
I then tried machining the tongue with a length of only 1/8. This seemed to work much better making the joint stronger. Never
had a problem with that approach. I have many shop drawers made with the weakest material on the planet- MDF. Never had a failure
with the modified dimensions. So I`ll have to do some testing when scaling up the joinery to 3/4
 
Panel Router - Sketchup

Hi all
I am starting another overpriced DIY project. Just did a concept drawing in Sketchup. I am also using Fusion 360 to generate more detailed drawings.
Found a new old stock linear motion assembly on eBay. It's very nice. I am looking at the Milwaukee 5616-24 2-1/4 Max HP EVS Multi-Base Router Kit
 

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CNC anything is overkill for panel construction. Cabinet makers have been using dado blade in a table saw for that kind of thing for a century and a half.... because it is fast to set up, accurate and safe.
 
I built the CNC more for violin making then cabinet construction. I constructed the machine on the second
floor of the shop. The door is 36 wide. But the machine is 45 wide. Also, I don`t believe I could fit the machine downstairs.
I have to be very careful about shop workflow. You can in certain cases be more productive in a small shop with less equipment.
The DIY panel router would not create a problem. Since I can custom size the machine for the application and space.
 
CNC anything is overkill for panel construction

There must be a large number of uniformed cabinet shops working totally in the wrong direction. I believe I`ve seen a large
number of shops making complete cabinets on a cnc. CNC Router | How Kitchen Cabinets Are Made - YouTube
Yes, using the table saw for dadoes would work perfectly. It's very useful if you're doing blind dadoes on right and left handed parts.
I can`t believe I forgot to use the table saw.
 
"That said, by your own evidence where prices posted on your site, you have way overpaid for the basic iron"

On this statement, I don`t agree. When I was building the combination machine space was again an issue. These
machines available in the marketplace were designed for large shops. Some are 50 plus inches wide. Never could I
fit the machine in the shop. Again, I could make a machine that served two functions in a shop footprint that would
work. Also, at the time a dual-purpose sander planer would cost $50,000. A used one would cost $20,000. I built the machine for
$5000.00
 
I tend to watch the IRS auctions. Around the month or so you posted yours, a couple slightly bigger industrial machines went for about $5K each, running, on the plant floor. At least one had new controller IIRC. One included the vac system, can't remember if both did. You can't build comparable iron especially including the spindles and tool changer for 5K. You can retrofit the controls.

http://www.irsauctions.com/pastfeatured/

I do admire your work and am envious of your technical knowlege. :)

smt
 
I tend to watch the IRS auctions. Around the month or so you posted yours, a couple slightly bigger industrial machines went for about $5K each, running, on the plant floor. At least one had new controller IIRC. One included the vac system, can't remember if both did. You can't build comparable iron especially including the spindles and tool changer for 5K. You can retrofit the controls.

http://www.irsauctions.com/pastfeatured/

I do admire your work and am envious of your technical knowlege. :)

smt

And I reciprocate your compliment. I think I emailed you once when I saw if memory serves me. Your DIY face
mill. But I still see your hand plane in the forum and in my copy of fine woodworking and still go wow.
 








 
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