What's the reason for Upcut saws?

Spud · Mar 13, 2014

So I see lots of cabinet, woodworking shops use UpCut saws, especially Whirlwind brand.

So what's special about it, versus a manual or automatic pull down chop saw (like an Omga)?

Milacron · Mar 13, 2014

Spud said:
So I see lots of cabinet, woodworking shops use UpCut saws, especially Whirlwind brand.

So what's special about it, versus a manual or automatic pull down chop saw (like an Omga)?

I've never owned one but just looking at them it seems like they might be safer, faster and way better dust collection possibilities. The last aspect not to be taken lightly, esp in production. In fact in California an employer can get hefty fines over inadequate dust collection.

macgyver · Mar 13, 2014

I would like to have one for my shop, they are much faster because the operator can use both hands to move material as the cut and clamp/guard is run by a foot pedal.

The guard is very good, it would be a chore to get a finger in the cut zone. The guarding being so good, the operator can really get busy around the saw without much worry about getting into the blade. Set up a tiger stop on it and the process becomes Very fast.

The clamp works great to hold it in place so the operator only has to get against the fence and stop then the machine will hold it.

The typical whirlwind uses an 18" blade so you get a very long life out of it vs a 10-14" chop saw.

They are very accurate with a new blade and leave a good finish. They are only set up for 90 deg crosscuts so they won't get moved like a miter saw and you don't have to contend with them getting out of adjustment, this is very nice in a multi worker environment. If the cut is not 90, it is generally not the saw, but the operator or a junk blade.

Dust collection is also very good. There is a little left behind, but very little.

bukwerm · Mar 13, 2014

I've never used one either but I have built quite a few cabinets. I can imagine that design would cause less tear out (on top) than a regular chop saw. That could be an advantage when making face frames. By pre sanding all the face frame stock it would make for less sanding after assembly.

One can pre sand and then chop them with the face down though so that may be like buying the barn to get the cow.

I suppose depending on how cheap of cabinets they are it might make it possible to completely finish the face frame stock before cutting.

Of course tear out can be minimized by using a good (sharp) application specific blade and saw with good bearings, but who has that?

Can they do angled cuts? If not, a chop saw would be more versatile in that respect.

Like milicron said, safety and cleanliness are probably very high on the list. Seems very application specific but very efficient in its particular application.

BobRenz · Mar 13, 2014

Another advantage is that they use otherwise wasted space under a cabinet, which leaves the entire top clear until a cut is needed. Since the blade only comes up when it has to, there's no problem with a spinning blade right in front of the operator.

stephen thomas · Mar 13, 2014

Friends of mine from long ago designed and build these saws. Note that they can be had in straight cut only, miter both ways up to 75° (15° included angle on the work), as well as in the 18" model, miter both ways + bevel left, with any combination in that range of compound cut.

Cut-off Saw Manufacturer - Vista Machines

Model MB-18 Angle Boss Cut-off Saws - Vista Machines

Here are some of the advantages they claim for upcut:
http://www.vistamachines.com/aboutvm.html

Spud · Mar 13, 2014

So how would you position your wood stock for accurate cuts around your cut line, would you have to have depth stops?? Cause looking at videos, with the blade guard down, the cut line is obscured.

CAPCNC · Mar 13, 2014

So how would you position your wood stock for accurate cuts around your cut line, would you have to have depth stops?? Cause looking at videos, with the blade guard down, the cut line is obscured

Usually when these saws are set up properly they have long rear fences with stops. Once their zeroed out during first install......good to go. Ive had a whirlwind and a vista for years.

bukwerm · Mar 13, 2014

CAPCNC said:
Spud said:

So how would you position your wood stock for accurate cuts around your cut line, would you have to have depth stops?? Cause looking at videos, with the blade guard down, the cut line is obscured.

Click to expand...

Usually when these saws are set up properly they have long rear fences with stops. Once their zeroed out during first install......good to go. Ive had a whirlwind and a vista for years.

That still doesn't explain how you'd line up with a cut line when the guard in the way. Unless I'm missing something....

Are you saying that you always use whatever type of measuring system that is on the saw? (autofeed, depth stop, or something else?)

Milacron · Mar 13, 2014

bukwerm said:
That still doesn't explain how you'd line up with a cut line when the guard in the way. Unless I'm missing something....

Maybe you press a button and the guard temporarily goes out of the way ?

CAPCNC · Mar 13, 2014

Yes. if you've ever used a sliding table saw they have stops on the crosscut fence. Are you saying that if you have a line on a piece of wood how do you line it up?
if so this machine is not meant for that. Even the angle boss is best for known lengths of angle and cut. Not that it cant be done. Not really good for onesie twosies. production.

CAPCNC · Mar 13, 2014

Milacron said:
Maybe you press a button and the guard temporarily goes out of the way ?

No every time the machine cycles it comes down. Cut long work your way in.

stephen thomas · Mar 13, 2014

I've seen pictures of straight cutting models, that when they are merely set up with roller tables on a defect line for chopping out knots, etc, have laser line indicators. Cannot clearly recall how the guard was configured for that, though.

You are not going to pay for a saw like this, for non-production. For "custom" constantly changing but not changing over to the same parts, a sliding chop saw is going to be more appropriate. For production, you can use programmable fences with the up-cuts, that remember a library of parts. Adding to the speed and safety of set-up.

smt

Heavey Metal · Mar 13, 2014

Eagle Talon

With one of these the whole length is guarded

Power feed with an encoder for length

Built by the amish

bukwerm · Mar 13, 2014

Milacron said:
Maybe you press a button and the guard temporarily goes out of the way ?

This plus a laser/some type of witness mark seems like the easiest method.

It'd be interesting to see an upcut saw that used a foot pedal to bring the blade up. For a small shop it seems like it'd be faster and safer than a traditional chopsaw, two hands on the material and no exposed blade, without the cost of the automated version.

Then again, maybe that's already out there. I don't need one so I don't really feel like taking the time to search for it.

Scruffy887 · Mar 14, 2014

The blade MUST be completely guarded for these saws to be safe. Years ago I had a whirlwind with the Tiger stop. The table is cast iron and the flat ground part of the table is a strip next to each side of the blade and along the back fence. The rest of the top is something like 3/4 to an inch lower. Lower so you can grab the stock with your fingers on the bottom to move it along without pulling it away from the fence. The guard on top comes down on cycle start and holds the stock in place. That guard must be set for stock thickness as the machine will not cycle if the stock is even slightly thinner than the set height. The big reason the blade must be completely guarded is that the Tiger stop moves quickly and things happen very very fast, especially in production. Your hands are flying back and forth because the saw cycles so freekin fast. So fast that the machine must be bolted down to keep it from walking out of place. Took me 2 full days to set mine up with a 20' infeed rollers and Tiger stop.

And they are actuated by a foot pedal. Right hand removes cut piece and left hand advances, right hand pull after stacking. You work with your palms up and there is no way those fingers under the stock can get near the blade. Your thumbs are on top of the stock but pointed away from the blade, and the gap under the guard has to be very small for the saw to cycle. And they are VERY accurate.

ATechMachine · Sep 21, 2017

You can review this site.

ATech - you need to contribute before spamming.

smt

macgyver · Sep 21, 2017

Since this popped back up, I ended up stumbling onto a upcut saw last summer. Got it and a bunch of accessories for a song. It is a HiPoint brand, so made in Taiwan, in the 80's-90's I'd say. Built like a tank, I was impressed with build quality actually. I even got the paperwork with it as the PO got it new I think. It has a 2 button cycle start on it and I plan to change over to a pedal but I am very happy with it.

What's the reason for Upcut saws?

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