teak mid century table and chairs refinish

two part guestion:

#1 I have a teak dining table set. It's Danish modern or mid century or whatever popular term you want to call it. It has a lot of drink rings, small scratches etc... and I am wondering how to quickly refinish it's top. At least just the top surface of the table and maybe the chairs. I have HVLP spray gun. belt sander, long board, Da sanders etc... I am looking mostly for a coating recommendation for everyday hard use. My color is very light I do not believe I would be staining much if at all.



#2 I would love to make some more chairs, but that's a big project for me. The chairs are very simple designs, I would look to pattern trace the segments with a table router or shaper i have then I joint them. The chair sides unbolt. My question is how would be the best way to transfer the shape if I used my chair as a template? Of course the pattern master are all glued up. I think laying the chair side on a sheet of plywood and tracing it with a hand router and shank bearing to some 1/2" plywood thickness depth would give me a pattern I can reproduce on individual segments with a router and nose bearing. It would be a challenge using a hand router.

I could draw them and use a shop bot for a template. Maybe even to cut the profiles?

these are very similar to mine but mine have stretchers and straight trapezoidal finger joints.
http://furnishmevintage.com/wp-content/uploads/danish_teak_2.jpg

http://furnishmevintage.com/wp-content/uploads/vintage_teak_dining_chairs.jpg

Thanks,
Dan

If you are happy with a chair that is not noticeably different from the original, you don't have to be perfect. I would start with a series of careful photographs - augmented by strategic measurements. I don't know what CAD you use, but in Solidworks, there is a way essentially convert a photograph into a sketch. From there you can model the various parts.

Take it out into your lawn, wait for the hipster fucks to descend, sell it for WAY too much money... Then never use the term mid century again. A few of my friends have become chique interior designers who are all so original in learning the term "mid century" and it makes me want to vomit.

Best of luck on your project.

A lot of Scandanavian teak was just finished in oil. I'd be inclined to lightly sand the table top to an even tone, then apply something like Watco natural teak oil or their "Danish oil." The Watco oils (some are toned) can be mixed if you want to add a bit of color.

It may be veneer, so proceed carefully.

I'd use Waterlox. Brush/flood on the first coat or two, let dry a few days in between then sand gently to level. Finally, spray the last coat. It'll cure completely in about a month or so (you could use it in a few days just don't leave anything sitting on it) and it will be patchable and repairable for a long, long time. The finished tone will be pleasantly warm.

You asked for "quickly" but the above is better. If you really want it done quick, use lacquer or shellac.

I have a set of those chairs, with a matching table. Fine sandpaper or fine steel wool followed by teak oil brings it back to new. Spray a coating on and you'll take away most of the collectable value. Backs and seats of these chairs are often plywood and the veneer can be sanded through. Most everything else is solid, and well made. If I needed more chairs I'd buy some, cheaper than making them even with the hipster markup.

Thanks,

Yes, I found out my stuff is rather desirable in hipsterland now. 15 years ago I bought it really cheap at a consignment shop. Maybe 200 for the table and 4 chairs?

I have tried to find the same style chair and I cant. Similar ones are $250 and up and I cant find 6 or 8 of them the same that I like. I am a cheap bastard when it comes to buying outright, but I will throw good money after bad on projects. The individual chair components would even fit in my fadal vmc.

My house is very well suited to this set and I like it, it just needs refinished. It's not veneer. I have decided to fix it up. I will look into waterlox or oils.

dsergison said:

Thanks,

Yes, I found out my stuff is rather desirable in hipsterland now. 15 years ago I bought it really cheap at a consignment shop. Maybe 200 for the table and 4 chairs?

I have tried to find the same style chair and I cant. Similar ones are $250 and up and I cant find 6 or 8 of them the same that I like. I am a cheap bastard when it comes to buying outright, but I will throw good money after bad on projects. The individual chair components would even fit in my fadal vmc.

My house is very well suited to this set and I like it, it just needs refinished. It's not veneer. I have decided to fix it up. I will look into waterlox or oils.

Click to expand...

Watco is your friend. It has changed a bit over the years, but most Scandinavian furniture was finished with it. The current stuff will be slightly harder and shinier finish, i think they just added more curing agents to the mix and used some synthetic crap instead of tung oil. but overall works the same. just need to rub it down more with steel wool when you are done applying the final coat. Heed all the warnings about disposing of the rags, they will self combust if not done properly. I just hang them up to dry like underwear, some of my rags are actually old underwear .....

If you think you can get the chars made cheaper than you can buy them, think again. Teak has became awfully expensive over the years, now it is upwards of 20 bucks a BFT. you will need to use epoxy to glue them up, and building stuff out of teak dulls carbide faster than glass filled plastic ....a real pain in the derriere.


here is a set for a good price ....http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-MID-CENTU...762?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b0b8239b2 but local pick up only

dee
;-D

dsergison said:

Thanks,

I am a cheap bastard when it comes to buying outright, but I will throw good money after bad on projects.

Click to expand...

Yep - same around here. Why buy something for $5 when you can make it for $50? Well, that is what my wife says anyway.

An awful lot of "Danish" furniture that sold tanker loads of "Danish oil finish" was actually conversion varnish. Done right in a thin 2 coats and steel-wooled out, it looks like bare wood & it is fast & reliable for the factory to apply compared to actually oiling, wiping waiting, oiling, wiping waiting... you get the picture. But if your's is really teak, and really has no discernable finish, Waterlox is easy to use, easy to repair, as well as tough and durable.

The chairs are very simple designs, I would look to pattern trace the segments with a table router or shaper i have then I joint them.

Click to expand...

Backwards.
Order of operations would be rough size families of parts referencing one end and one edge for all operations.
At the start, blanks may be 1/16" total thicker (or more) than intended finish thickness.
1.) make joints
2.) rough bandsaw parts to approximate contour leaving at least 1/8" extra in joint areas, and 1/16" along finished edges (each side)
3.) glue side frames up making sure the parts cover a full pattern and are flat
4.) run through the widebelt sander alternating sides to flatten, Go right down to 180 or even 220 grit since a lot of area will be cross grain. Take the time now, to save time later.
5.) put the sides on your pin router (preferred) or shaper pattern, and cut to contour. The cutter should be neutral or very slightly negative rake but razor sharp, so as not to tear out when going in the many areas against the grain. If the sides have edges that vary from flat, to bullnosed; cut out everything with a straight bit first, then go back and cut the rounded sections as a second op.

The reason those joints are curved is because they are ramming a stack of cutters into the edge of the vertical to create the fingers. You can do that, or used M & T. Dowels or biscuits are a bad idea, but it is hard to talk people out of them.

This stuff was made for production on fairly basic principles, but with dedicated machines. You can replicate the processes with a table saw, jigsaw or bandsaw, and a router or 2 set up with collars and guides.

One way to make semi-production patterns for router or shaper guides is to use baltic birch plywood of "sufficient" thickness. Cut, file, plane, spokeshave, sand to "perfect" form and fair. Then saturate the edges with WEST system epoxy (no fillers). let it soak in, cure, and then sand the form fair again and wax it.

Another way is to use 1/4" or 3/8" plywood laminated with formica. When the glue is cured, sand the formica faces to 180 or 120 grit. Make sure they are dull and scratched. Then laminate 2 sheets face to face, formica in the middle. The sandwich with a 1/8" thick layer of phenolic between outer layers of wood is light and tough and will run miles of parts, as long as you don't ever nick it with a cutter.

If a pin router is available, flexible patterns in the shop can be secured to an inflexible carry board with the work registered over it. If you have to use hand-held routers or a shaper, the pattern will need to be strategically secured to each work piece for rigidity, say with screws in holes that will later be used for assembly.

smt

SMT, Thanks for the suggestion to joint it all first.

All of the edges are the same profile, rounded but not tangent. about a 1" radius on a 3/4 thick edge. A pin router would be sweet. I own a Jet JWS18 shaper. that is the only way I can swing a rounding bit that size, or the trapezoidal finger jointer besides the VMC.

Do you think one can successfully weld a C frame from 2" square steel tube or such and affix it to such a shaper table to make an inverted pin router? fairly small 18" square table yes. but I can pad the perimiter.

I can use a widebelt at a school. And their cnc shop bot to make patterns in formica at any offset, but I figured I would set up a bearing on a hand router to do that. Not sure quite how best to do that part.

Dan, you can use a ball bearing collar on the shaper spindle to run against the form, no need for an overhead pin. I make them from 1/2" aluminum and just press them on to ball bearings with the correct id. Very easy, and you have complete control of depth of cut that way. If you do want to create an inverted pin router, anyway you can get a concentric pin or collar up there is just fine. 2" sq steel tubing is more than enuf, for a quick one off job I'd just make it out of wood. There used to be "dead heads" sold for just this purpose, a bracket that bolted down to the table holding a ring over the spindle and concentric to it.

Did anyone check out those chairs on ebay and notice that they were made in Singapore? Tricky devils those "Scandanvians"...

richard newman said:

Dan, you can use a ball bearing collar on the shaper spindle to run against the form, no need for an overhead pin. I make them from 1/2" aluminum and just press them on to ball bearings with the correct id. Very easy, and you have complete control of depth of cut that way. If you do want to create an inverted pin router, anyway you can get a concentric pin or collar up there is just fine. 2" sq steel tubing is more than enuf, for a quick one off job I'd just make it out of wood. There used to be "dead heads" sold for just this purpose, a bracket that bolted down to the table holding a ring over the spindle and concentric to it.

Did anyone check out those chairs on ebay and notice that they were made in Singapore? Tricky devils those "Scandanvians"...

Click to expand...

I thought that was a fine touch. Ain't globalization cool? But for stuff like this it kinda makes sense, why ship raw lumber to Denmark? Where I think it is a problem, when Pensilvania cherry shaker hutches come from China.....ship the lumber to China and then the hutch back?

dee
;-D

Dan-

A shaper is fine for the work so long as you can use (make) a cutterhead with neutral rake.

This is pretty basic work, but there are some items to pay attention to, and one potential "gotcha" whatever machine is used.

The primary advantage of a pin router is that the form can be larger than the pattern and include things like hold-downs, fences, locating pins, etc. Since the pin or bearing is below, and the cutter above, the actual work platform can cover the entire pattern, though of course the cutting paths must be clear. The other advantage is that a pattern for thin parts such as chair legs that might have some flex, is made quite rigid by the diaphram strength of the cover/carry board.

On a shaper, use all the natural connector/screw holes as dowel and screw points, and maybe you will have to add a few extra screw points at the tips of legs or other cantilevered parts. If you drill them as part of the pre-ops, they can be filled with a little ebony feature dot when finishing. Or the legs can be left a little long, with the pattern holding screws in the sacrificial stub end.

I would not go to the trouble of configuring a shaper as an inverted pin router for this job. Being inverted, it does not improve the opportunities for hold-downs off the ends of pieces as is possible on a right-side-up pin router.

By the time you get to this point, a shaper is not really necessary, a good hand router would work.
The shaper is "better" if the table is big enough to easily support the work/pattern and it is often easier to make tooling for the shaper (neutral rake tools) than for the router.

The bullnosing is a bit tricky with a full profile cutter. If the piece vibrates or springs vertically, the imprints in the work are obvious and difficult (lots of sanding) to remove. Don't know your level of previous participation in the sport, so just making that observation. I would personally not try to set the shaper, hold downs and make the pattern perfectly flat and parallel to try to get the cut out, and the bullnose, all in one pass as might be done in production. The other factor is the correct diameter of the cutter for the inside radii at the joints.

My personal approach for 16 or 20 sides, would *probably* be to cut out the parts to pattern with a neutral rake HSS or possibly carbide insert cutter as a first operation. Then set the shaper up with the 1/2 cove down and a bearing pilot, and do each side. Yes, that is now 32 or 40 passes, but any glitches in the work springing or rising off the table removes the part from the cut, and you can press down and re-cut that area.

If you decide to run a full bullnose profile anyway, then contrive some guides and hold downs, or even a powered stock feeder for positive control. It is certainly possible. But be aware of all the pitfalls, and test all set ups on scrap. It is often worth making an extra set of chair sides out of the reject lumber, and carrying them the whole way through all processes, to prove and test each set up as it is made. One of the biggest things being tested at each point, is does the cutter geometry, tool path approach, and set up promote tear-out free work or not.

Good luck!
By the time you upholster them I don't think any money will be saved. But that type of production can be a lot of fun, and just challenging enough to be interesting.
smt

However you decide to shape them, there is one area that is going to be a PIA - the transition from leg to seat rail. No matter which way you run the cutter, you will encounter some head grain which is very likely to break out. Especially after the teak rounds over the edge of your knives. A Byrd shelix head might be able to handle that, I've been very impressed with what they can do.

Or you could use a spindle sander at that point. I've rigged up my spindle sander with a pilot collar underneath to shape banjo peghead profiles, works great where nothing else would cut perfectly clean. But requires modifying a spindle and making collars.

Stephen's suggestion about the bullnose makes a lot of sense to me. You could also do it with a handheld router, and take a climb cut at that delicate spot.

I also think you'd be way ahead if you can find the chairs anywhere out there. Between the cost of the teak, the upholstery, the time spent making jigs and templates, it will be a major outlay. Plus the teak will take the edge off every knife it touches.

I guess since the OP's interest was "money saving" I kind of thought he might substitute say white oak or maybe even *ash for teak. If teak is used, then probably all cutters should be carbide, either shop built or shop modified to neutral or neg cutting geometery. If shop made brazed tooling is made, then probably the best material would be Stellite ("Tantung" et al, e.g.) Easily silver soldered, grinds easily with standard AlO wheels, hone sharper than carbide, and just about as durable in wood.

*ash is cheap these days (emerald ash borer ) but it is more brash than oak and way more brash than teak (splits easily) so the joints will need more attention to design and integrity.

smt

kustomizingkid said:

Take it out into your lawn, wait for the hipster fucks to descend, sell it for WAY too much money... Then never use the term mid century again. A few of my friends have become chique interior designers who are all so original in learning the term "mid century" and it makes me want to vomit.

Best of luck on your project.

Click to expand...

WOW ! Thank you for your well thought out, concise, and very informative post....

Some of us happen to like that style, and would welcome info on how to
repair and reproduce it.

stephen thomas said:

I guess since the OP's interest was "money saving" I kind of thought he might substitute say white oak or maybe even *ash for teak. If teak is used, then probably all cutters should be carbide, either shop built or shop modified to neutral or neg cutting geometery. If shop made brazed tooling is made, then probably the best material would be Stellite ("Tantung" et al, e.g.) Easily silver soldered, grinds easily with standard AlO wheels, hone sharper than carbide, and just about as durable in wood.

*ash is cheap these days (emerald ash borer ) but it is more brash than oak and way more brash than teak (splits easily) so the joints will need more attention to design and integrity.

smt

Click to expand...

Thank you for the tool rake comment, I would never have thought of that. Would white oak be ok with the normal geometry?

I do have white oak... that would be really cool to use my felled giant white oak tree but it may be a bit far gone and I would need to saw it in place. I am sure I can get plenty of rough board out of it easily even with a chain saw as no 1 piece is longer than 20" I have a 30" chainsaw and a small thickness planer. Any mis-match of color or wood type would be offset by the awesomeness of making it from a tree from my yard.


to heck with making a pattern.. I have decided my pattern can be an actual chair side screwed down to the rough cut right through it's existing bolt locations! That would be super sweet!

I would need to make a ball bearing follower for the top of the bullnose at the correct diameter to follow my pattern.

I only need 1 bullnose and 1 finger jointer cutter, and to make a simple sled to get the finger joints straight and aligned correctly to the board grain.



I need this to make bullnose profile but about 1/2 that size. I can use a cheap full round but at less depth.
http://www.cmtutensili.com/media/files/474_1056_fz_690.556.jpg

and this trapezoid finger joint
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41nr4gQY5RL._SY300_.jpg

If you finish the top and new work danish oil is good stuff.

Keep it wet until it stops soaking it in.

While wet wet sand with 600 paper and that will cut off fibers that come up when wet

When dry they go back fown and the top will have a smooth as glass but soft feel.

Here I am on break at work and going to find some juicy machining topic to think about and......BAM furniture refinishing???? WT?. There is less and less about maching on PM.

Athack