Thank a Union Member: 75th Anniversary of the Flint Sit-Down Strike

[kpotter]

We all know there are lots of morons in the world and as you get older you will see them more clearly. Everyone needs a job or they become a burden on society. If we set the bar so high that a majority of people no longer have access to the basics they will suck us all down. There used to be jobs for these people, they worked in factories assembling rubber dog poop or woopy cushions. There are no jobs for these people now, 50% of the population is average in ambition and intelligence and then you have the rest who are below average. When you need to be of average intelligence just to get a job what do we do with everyone else.

 

[kpotter]

I just reread corns post and when I was 24 I listened to Rush limbdick and fox but as I got older and met more people I realized that those kind of policies dont work. Have you ever met truly poor people? Do you know what they go through and how hard most of them work. I know a ton of them because they work for my brother. Things that we take for granted like having electricity and a car to get to work they dont have and even if they work like dogs they will never have because the pay is so low. I know guys that work 7 days a week 100 hours or more just to feed there kids. One of my brothers guys saved up enough money to buy a house while earning 8 bucks an hour he has 3 kids and a wife. He was putting a roof on a house during his weekend job and he fell off the porch and broke his leg, since he has no insurance he couldnt pay the hospital so they sent him to collections since he couldnt work he couldnt make his house payment since he couldnt make his house payment he lost his house and his truck and now they are living in a homeless shelter. If that happened to me my health insurance would have covered the bill and I have family with the means to make sure I dont loose everything. None of us are truly self made.

 

[tjd10684]

I just reread corns post and when I was 24 I listened to Rush limbdick and fox /snip

Thats fine just don't pigon hole all of us young guys.

(26 yrs here)

 

[John Welden]

I just reread corns post and when I was 24 I listened to Rush limbdick and fox but as I got older and met more people I realized that those kind of policies dont work. Have you ever met truly poor people? Do you know what they go through and how hard most of them work. I know a ton of them because they work for my brother. Things that we take for granted like having electricity and a car to get to work they dont have and even if they work like dogs they will never have because the pay is so low. I know guys that work 7 days a week 100 hours or more just to feed there kids. One of my brothers guys saved up enough money to buy a house while earning 8 bucks an hour he has 3 kids and a wife. He was putting a roof on a house during his weekend job and he fell off the porch and broke his leg, since he has no insurance he couldnt pay the hospital so they sent him to collections since he couldnt work he couldnt make his house payment since he couldnt make his house payment he lost his house and his truck and now they are living in a homeless shelter. If that happened to me my health insurance would have covered the bill and I have family with the means to make sure I dont loose everything. None of us are truly self made.

Pfffff, whatever. Probably thinks he deserves a handout because he's working a 100 hours a week? Boo Hoo he broke his leg, maybe he should be more careful. Probably on drugs and that's why he fell. Most poor folk are drug heads.

I'm so tired of these sonofabitches that come crying to uncle Sam every time something goes wrong. Help, my family is in a homeless shelter! Give me another handout! No, you're lazy, go get a job.

How about he goes and gets a fuckin job and quits stealing out of my pocket? Where in the constitution does it say that I owe him jack shit? He can't pay his medical bills so I'm supposed to? Maybe he should have had a rainy day fund set aside? Did this dirt bag ever think of that? Prolly wasted his pay check on drugs. Most poor folk are on drugs and that's why they're poor. Ain't my fault. I have zero sympathy for the poor. If they didn't want to be poor they'd get a fuckin job. Plus half these "poor folk " are driving around in Cadillac Escalades and buying big screen TVs. Poor my ass...

 

[andywire]

We are fast approaching a point in our society where the simple go to work and make a living model may become obsolete. There are single machines doing the work that used to take 100 people to do. Not only that, but one worker can oversee multiple machines at a time. It's the same in many professions. Accounting work used to be done on paper. Nurses weren't always monitoring 7 patients at time at the level they do today. There will be a breaking point. As the population grows, there will be more consumer demand hypothetically, but technology is growing exponentially more efficient. The republicans will continue to tell everyone it's their own fault for being poor and out of work, and the working class will continue to go on their way. Every year, that working class will grow smaller and smaller, but they will continue to blame everyone else. Who knows where it will end up, but it's coming.

I'm not saying there should be free rides, but we have to consider what is happening, and what effect that will have going forward. I'm not sure what the answer is, I don't think anyone does. We have to admit that this problem will not get any better and cannot be swept under the rug.

 

[kpotter]

Some of you would tell these guys to go get a better job but when you cant read or write very well you are screwed plus when most of your teeth have fallen out of your head because you have never been to a dentist in your entire life the chances of getting a better job are slim. They were born poor they grew up in crappy neighborhoods went to crappy schools they have no backstop like some of us who have succesfull parents they can fall all the way down and it is real hard to get up. If you cant read it is tough to get a drivers license, without a license you cant get a bank account without a bank account you cash your pay check at a check cashing place that takes 10%. With out good credit you rent a crappy apartment for lots of money on a month to month lease and your kids go to a crappy school and you repeat the cycle.

 

[Cornilsn]

We are fast approaching a point in our society where the simple go to work and make a living model may become obsolete. There are single machines doing the work that used to take 100 people to do. Not only that, but one worker can oversee multiple machines at a time. It's the same in many professions. Accounting work used to be done on paper. Nurses weren't always monitoring 7 patients at time at the level they do today. There will be a breaking point. As the population grows, there will be more consumer demand hypothetically, but technology is growing exponentially more efficient. The republicans will continue to tell everyone it's their own fault for being poor and out of work, and the working class will continue to go on their way. Every year, that working class will grow smaller and smaller, but they will continue to blame everyone else. Who knows where it will end up, but it's coming.

I'm not saying there should be free rides, but we have to consider what is happening, and what effect that will have going forward. I'm not sure what the answer is, I don't think anyone does. We have to admit that this problem will not get any better and cannot be swept under the rug.

I'll agree that it definitely takes less people to make a given unit of output these days. I won't agree that this is a 'bad' thing, I won't agree that it won't get better... because this has happened before. Look at agriculture... it used to take a HUGE portion of the population to feed themselves. Now it takes what, 3%? Before the industrial revolution absorbed all those people, I beleive there was similar discord and discontent... maybe not as bad, maybe worse. That said I don't know what will come along and employ huge portions of our population at middle class wages, but I'm sure something will.

 

[machinehead61]

I, in my heart of hearts, beleive that the only person responsible for the current situation one finds themself in, is themself.

History disagrees with you.

"Months before Pearl Harbor the great migration was on. By the end of the war more than 4,000,000 workers (or an estimated 9,000,000 people) had trekked to shipyards, aircraft factories, or ordnance plants, the greatest civilian movement of people in the history of the country in a like period of time. In addition, thousands of servicemen's wives followed them to camp. These people had to be housed, their communities serviced, their children schooled. Around new "factories in the fields" Trailervilles, Cardboard Cities, Splintervilles mushroomed.Quit rural villages in their vicinity were turned into raw boom towns to the dismay of retired farmers and their wives. Strangers from all parts of the country jammed their streets and overflowed their schools and destroyed their "way of life." The construction and administration of these war communities produced stresses and strains, personal and group tensions, government agency conflicts more intense perhaps than any aspect of life on the home front.....

In Chicago the deficiencies in Negro housing, which had been critical before the war, became stark tragedy and left to the city its most distressing postwar situation."

Mary Watters
Illinois in the Second World War, Volume II, The Production Front
Illinois State Historical Library, 1952
p. 296-297


"The problem of Negro housing became increasingly acute in certain Illinois towns during the war (WW II); other communities avoided it by excluding the Negro. There is, for example, the case of the Seneca shipyards. At a conference sponsored by the state Department of Public welfare the question of placing Negro workers in the shipyards was raised. The mayor of Ottawa, where a large part of the workers resided, reminded the group that his city had a restriction on the number of Negroes admitted to residence. Out of a population of more than 16,000 there were 107 Negroes, and no Negroes resided in Seneca. The personnel director at the shipyard then related his experience: he had hired a total of 19,000 persons, had talked with 40 Negroes, hired 38. Not one of them finished a day's work. “We have shown no discrimination,” he declared,”but they decided not to work here.”....

Chicago, of course, contained the problem in its largest proportions. An estimated 80 per cent of the city's residential area was closed to Negroes by restrictive covenants....



On May 3, 1948, the United States Supreme Court declared race restrictive covenants unenforceable in state and federal courts. As the restrictive covenant began losing its efficacy (even before the Supreme Court decision), violence threatened to take its place. White residents in neighborhoods into which Negro families had moved subjected them to intimidation ranging from petty vandalism to arson and bombing. Although as noted above, Negroes now lived along with whites in 11 of the 22 veterans' projects, violence arose over their moving into two projects and in one threatened to develop into a serious race riot.

"There had been angry protests for months about the location of the project in this neighborhood, and on moving day violence and rioting broke out."

Mary Watters
Illinois In The Second World War - Volume II: The Production Front,
Copyrite 1952, Illinois State Historical Library
p. 310-312"

Detroit Race Riot (1943) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the summer of 1943, in the midst of World War II, tensions between blacks and whites in Detroit were escalating. Detroit's population had grown by 350,000 people since the war began. The booming defense industries brought in large numbers of people with high wages and very little available housing. 50,000 blacks had recently arrived along with 300,000 whites, mostly from rural Appalachia.....

The Riots lasted three days and ended once Mayor Edward Jeffries, Jr. and Governor Harry Kelly asked President Roosevelt to intervene. Federal troops finally restored peace to the streets of Detroit. Over the course of three days, 34 people were killed, 25 of whom were African Americans. Out of the approximately 600 injured, black people accounted for more than 75 percent and of the roughly 1,800 people who were arrested over the course of the 3 day riots, black people accounted for 85 percent.....

Detroit's black leaders pointed to other causes ranging from job discrimination, to housing discrimination, police brutality and daily animosity received from Detroit's white population.

http://apps.detnews.com/apps/history/index.php?id=185

Times were tough for all, but for the Negro community, times were even tougher.

Blacks were excluded from all public housing except the Brewster projects. Many lived in homes without indoor plumbing, yet they paid rent two to three times higher than families in white districts. Blacks were also confronted with a segregated military, discrimination in public accommodations, and unfair treatment by police.

The summer of 1941 saw an epidemic of street corner fights involving blacks and Polish youths who were terrorizing black neighborhoods in Detroit and Hamtramck.

Early in June 1943, 25,000 Packard plant workers, who produced engines for bombers and PT boats, stopped work in protest of the promotion of three blacks. A handful of agitators whipped up animosity against the promotions. During the strike a voice outside the plant reportedly shouted, "I'd rather see Hitler and Hirohito win than work beside a ****************** on the assembly line."

Whites resentful over working next to blacks caused many stoppages and slowdowns. Harold Zeck, a former Packard defense worker, recalls the time when a group of women engine workers tried to get the men on the assembly line to walk off the job to protest black female workers using the white restrooms. "They think their fannies are as good as ours," screamed one woman. The protest fizzled when the men refused to walk out.....

On Sept. 29, the project was named Sojourner Truth, in memory of the female Negro leader and poet of Civil War days. Despite being completed on Dec. 15, no tenants moved into the homes because of mounting opposition from the white neighborhood.

On Jan. 20, 1942, Washington informed the Housing Commission that the Sojourner Truth project would be for whites and another site would be selected for black workers. But when a suitable site for blacks could not be found, Washington housing authorities agreed to allow blacks into the finished homes.

On Feb. 27, with a cross burning in a field near the homes, 150 angry whites picketed the project vowing to keep out any black homeowners. By dawn the following day, the crowd had grown to 1,200, many of whom were armed.

The first black tenants, rent paid and leases signed, arrived at 9 a.m. but left the area fearing trouble. It wasn't long in coming. Fighting began when two blacks in a car attempted to run through the picket line. Clashes between white and black groups continued into the afternoon when 16 mounted police attempted to break up the fighting. Tear gas and shotgun shell were flying through the air. Officials announced an indefinite postponement of the move.

Life is more complex than the conservative mind wishes.

Steve

 

[Cornilsn]

History disagrees with you.

snip

Life is more complex than the conservative mind wishes.

Steve

Well, guess you're right. Lets all give up. I have no control anyway, why should I even try? fuck life, its so unfair. assholes started out with more than i did. Fuck them. someone should take it from them so they have to start where I did. someone should gaurantee that I get to a middle class living, I shouldn't be expected to think ahead, educate myself, or adapt to a world that changes around me. I shouldn't be expected to get up when life knocks me down. thats not fair, life doesn't knock everyone down.

But seriously, what's the solution to this? I want to hear it. all I hear is how unfair it is, but no solutions.



The world must seem very bleak to you.

 

[smalltime]

Life is more complex than the conservative mind wishes.

Steve

So tell us, Oh multi-colored text one, what does 69 year old race riots have to do with the fact that there are opportunities for risk takers in 2012?

Do you think that the era of the self made man (or woman) is dead? Is there no hope for any of us OUTSIDE of the government helping us?

P.S.
I would really enjoy reading YOUR responses, not one of the pirated link posts you are wont to include.

 

[cmailco]

24

.... As I just got done saying above, I stand by the core element of that statement. You are responsible for you own destiny. No union, no company, no asshole boss, no law, no government, no tarrif, no BODY, BUT YOU, really controls your destiny any more than you allow them to. And i think THAT, is as fair as you can hope for life to be.

You keep on believing that Cornwallis. I believed a lot of things at your age too.

You're one unfortunate event away from a whole new outlook on life, so you've got a lot to look forward to. Empathy is natural in some people and for others, well, they have to learn it the hard way.

I've known some great people, many of whom I admire deeply, who have done everything "right" only to wake one day to a world crashing down upon them. It's a growing experience... one I've experienced personally.

"The old believe everything; the middle-aged suspect everything; the young know everything." --Oscar Wilde

 

[andywire]

Well, guess you're right. Lets all give up. I have no control anyway, why should I even try? fuck life, its so unfair. assholes started out with more than i did. Fuck them. someone should take it from them so they have to start where I did. someone should gaurantee that I get to a middle class living, I shouldn't be expected to think ahead, educate myself, or adapt to a world that changes around me. I shouldn't be expected to get up when life knocks me down. thats not fair, life doesn't knock everyone down.

But seriously, what's the solution to this? I want to hear it. all I hear is how unfair it is, but no solutions.



The world must seem very bleak to you.

What if our society becomes something like the neofeudalistic society many are warning of? I would call myself a conservative on most issues. That doesn't mean I think everything will turn out better than before by virtue of following those principles though. Things are changing at light speed. One can try to keep up, but many will inevitably be left behind simply by picking up the wrong skillset. There are a number of well educated folks out there having trouble these days. Once one is out of the workforce for a few years, it's very difficult to just jump back in. There are plenty of young folks out there who could be productive, but they just don't have the right opportunities like those that were present in previous generations. We all know life is not fair. The reality is, luck will play a big part of who sinks and who swims. The rising waters won't be lifting all ships, likely even fewer ships then in previous times. One must ask... Is this progress? That all depends on who you ask.

I don't think anyone is arguing these realities. Some of us feel we should be doing more to address them though. If we are such an advanced society, we probably should start by accepting, there are going to be tons of displaced folks going forward. If we keep it that way, they will be a drain on society. The government already takes enough out of my paycheck. Instead of rewarding people for reproducing, perhaps we should investigate what avenues we can take to allow them to pay their way. Telling them not to reproduce is simply not an effective answer, because it won't work. Let's go ahead and accept that to be true as well. I don't much like the idea of paying people to sit around either. Perhaps there is a healthy balance between the two that can be explored. Simply saying something will fill the void may not cut it at the end of the day though. That's like me saying... I don't have enough money for groceries, but that void will be filled down the road... Turns out banks don't take too kindly to that logic when it comes to paying off loans and such...

 

[bucktruck]

Pfffff, whatever. Probably thinks he deserves a handout because he's working a 100 hours a week? Boo Hoo he broke his leg, maybe he should be more careful. Probably on drugs and that's why he fell. Most poor folk are drug heads.

I'm so tired of these sonofabitches that come crying to uncle Sam every time something goes wrong. Help, my family is in a homeless shelter! Give me another handout! No, you're lazy, go get a job.

How about he goes and gets a fuckin job and quits stealing out of my pocket? Where in the constitution does it say that I owe him jack shit? He can't pay his medical bills so I'm supposed to? Maybe he should have had a rainy day fund set aside? Did this dirt bag ever think of that? Prolly wasted his pay check on drugs. Most poor folk are on drugs and that's why they're poor. Ain't my fault. I have zero sympathy for the poor. If they didn't want to be poor they'd get a fuckin job. Plus half these "poor folk " are driving around in Cadillac Escalades and buying big screen TVs. Poor my ass...

Holy crap Mr. Weldon, you crack me up! I hope you don't take offense to me quoting you in green font.

 

[Greg White]

Corn,looks like your getting some manure on that silver tongue mister.
Maybe corn would like to take the word "United" out of the name of this country?
I think him and his like are whats wrong with this place,maybe he will change his mind when hes 50,maybe too late..
Union jobs pay the highest,and for the lint pickers,generaly speaking.
Gw

 

[Mike72]

Pfffff, whatever. Probably thinks he deserves a handout because he's working a 100 hours a week? Boo Hoo he broke his leg, maybe he should be more careful. Probably on drugs and that's why he fell. Most poor folk are drug heads.

I'm so tired of these sonofabitches that come crying to uncle Sam every time something goes wrong. Help, my family is in a homeless shelter! Give me another handout! No, you're lazy, go get a job.

How about he goes and gets a fuckin job and quits stealing out of my pocket? Where in the constitution does it say that I owe him jack shit? He can't pay his medical bills so I'm supposed to? Maybe he should have had a rainy day fund set aside? Did this dirt bag ever think of that? Prolly wasted his pay check on drugs. Most poor folk are on drugs and that's why they're poor. Ain't my fault. I have zero sympathy for the poor. If they didn't want to be poor they'd get a fuckin job. Plus half these "poor folk " are driving around in Cadillac Escalades and buying big screen TVs. Poor my ass...

Finally someone speaks the truth. We are approaching a time when this kind of talk may become illegal and land you in jail. Remember, socialism like communism always disguises it's true intentions until its too late.

 

[iwananew10K]

Finally someone speaks the truth. We are approaching a time when this kind of talk may become illegal and land you in jail. Remember, socialism like communism always disguises it's true intentions until its too late.

you do realize John was being sarcastic???

if not,please take the time to distiguish between communism and socialism.

have a family? you are probably(hopefully??) a socialist. it`s not a bad word and believe it or not is not contrary to democracy.

 

[tjd10684]

snip/

But seriously, what's the solution to this? I want to hear it. all I hear is how unfair it is, but no solutions.

/snip

I can't believe I'm doing this but I agree. It seams to be easy to talk about how terrible every thing is but nobody ,including ACTUAL POLITICIANS, want to address or even look for the root of the problems.

Here is what I think the problem is: Corruption
This is why I think this. It is easy enough for large corps to "buy" policy makers because their are relatively few of them and the corps have plenty of money to throw around. Especially with the recent supreme court ruling basically letting corps make unlimited bribes.

Here is what I think the solution should be. Dissolve the House of Representatives and replace it with a direct public vote, similar to what a direct democracy would be. This would be kinda like "No taxation with out representation". Since most people would agree that congress does not seam to truly represent the people anymore.

The other thing I would like to see is that when bills are made they can not bundle several things together. One issue One bill. My favorite example of this is the Obama care bill. Right or Wrong I have no comment but leave my student loans out of it.

I would also like to see "expiration" dates on bills. Their are so many bills and laws that are no longer valid but still on the books, and all they do is make legal "bloat". This way say you propose a knee jerk bill and it gets passed but in 10yrs it is not longer "valid" it would have to come up for a re-vote to be reinstated and at that time it would no longer be useful so it would be voted down and by the way a no vote would be the same as a down vote.

These are what I think are decent possible solutions. What do you got? (not directed at just corn)

 

[Cornilsn]

I can't believe I'm doing this but I agree. It seams to be easy to talk about how terrible every thing is but nobody ,including ACTUAL POLITICIANS, want to address or even look for the root of the problems.

Here is what I think the problem is: Corruption
This is why I think this. It is easy enough for large corps to "buy" policy makers because their are relatively few of them and the corps have plenty of money to throw around. Especially with the recent supreme court ruling basically letting corps make unlimited bribes.

Here is what I think the solution should be. Dissolve the House of Representatives and replace it with a direct public vote, similar to what a direct democracy would be. This would be kinda like "No taxation with out representation". Since most people would agree that congress does not seam to truly represent the people anymore.

The other thing I would like to see is that when bills are made they can not bundle several things together. One issue One bill. My favorite example of this is the Obama care bill. Right or Wrong I have no comment but leave my student loans out of it.

I would also like to see "expiration" dates on bills. Their are so many bills and laws that are no longer valid but still on the books, and all they do is make legal "bloat". This way say you propose a knee jerk bill and it gets passed but in 10yrs it is not longer "valid" it would have to come up for a re-vote to be reinstated and at that time it would no longer be useful so it would be voted down and by the way a no vote would be the same as a down vote.

These are what I think are decent possible solutions. What do you got? (not directed at just corn)

So I can't beleive I'm saying it either, but I think what you've posted is a good start. Maybe not dissolving the house of rep/congress etc... (2 wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner and all that) but the expirations and stopping pork bundling I'm ALL for.

Additional answers? An industrial policy. Not tariffs, but policies promoting industrial development. (IE, gov't funded R+D on REAL, useful technologies, not this green bullshit that needs a cash lifeline to barely pay back before the equipment is lifed out.) Additionally, stipulations that the technology transfered must stay IN the US for a while. (I think ITAR regulations on military tech would be a good model...)




Greg,
You're amusing. If you look at purely pay, union jobs MIGHT pay a bit more than a comparable non-union job. Hasn't been my experience, but i digress.
Read my posts again, that's not really my beef with them. No manure on my tongue.

Andywire,

I think your second paragraph is closer to where I'm at than you would think. I don't know what the answer is... I can't abide paying people to sit around, as it will punish people who do make good decisions and are able to maintain a relevant skillset... but I recognize some people will be displaced. I also recognize that marginalized people can be dangerous and recruited to do some bad stuff (see: middle east) While I'd rather err on the side of not doing anything and letting it self correct, we need to do something. I'm hoping not much more than the current welfare/unemployment scheme with some minor adjustments.

 

[tjd10684]

So I can't beleive I'm saying it either, but I think what you've posted is a good start. Maybe not dissolving the house of rep/congress etc... (2 wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner and all that) but the expirations and stopping pork bundling I'm ALL for.

slight misunderstanding here. ONLY House of Rep. leave senate in tact. So same system as house and senate except house is a direct democracy model.

 

[77ironhead]

Andywire,

I think your second paragraph is closer to where I'm at than you would think. I don't know what the answer is... I can't abide paying people to sit around, as it will punish people who do make good decisions and are able to maintain a relevant skillset... but I recognize some people will be displaced.
don't worry....they'll 'self-correct'
I also recognize that marginalized people can be dangerous and recruited to do some bad stuff (see: middle east) While I'd rather err on the side of not doing anything and letting it self correct, (see your own preceding sentence on how marginalized people tend to 'self-correct' when they're faced with starvation) we need to do something. I'm hoping not much more than the current welfare/unemployment scheme with some minor adjustments.

holy crap- you're about mealy-mouthed, aren't you?

you've dodged this repeatedly (every time this particular dead horse gets beaten again, actually):
You are the poster boy for advocating outsourcing of low-skill jobs and concentrating on high-skill work like engineering......but have nothing useful to say on what should be done with the millions of permanently unemployable people who used to work all the unskilled or semi-skilled jobs that are somehow beneath you.

Get used to it, there are 4 realistic choices available:
1- bring back the unskilled work so these folks who aren't (for whatever reason) capable of a gin-u-ine enjineering pedigree can earn their own way in life
2- get used to a permanent welfare class
3- arm yourself for the 'self-correction' that will inevitably result in bloodshed on a scale you seem unable to comprehend
4- genocide of the 'useless eaters' either through Roman-style spectacles, or outright genocide of the lesser, lowbrow types.

of course, you've already completely rejected option 1 (repeatedly), and have expressed distaste for option 2.......
so tell us, young prince, whether you prefer option 3 or option 4?