List of the top Job Shop Machines

[Smoothbore]

A "Job Shop" exists primarily to support the manufacturing, agricultural and mining/drilling/logging industries.

You can't have a "Job Shop" in a Country that's shipped all it's manufacturing to China, ... and over-regulates all other domestic enterprise.

In one generation, that over-regulated environment, has decimated the ranks of skilled Machinists that might successfully operate such a shop.


CNC Machining NEVER had an impact on "Job Shop" profits, ... one way or the other.

They're fast, but require dramatically more "support", ... which goes directly to "overhead".

The available work changed, ... and THAT changed the "bottom line", ... not the machines used to perform that work.

The shift to CNC was not a "cause" , ... it's an "affect".

The Shops that remain today, are basically "Boutique" operations, serving only one, localized Industry.


Bring back Manufacturing, and "Job Shops" can again survive, ... but the skilled workforce will be hard to replace.




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[4GSR]

.......You can't have a "Job Shop" in a Country that's shipped all it's manufacturing to China, ... ..

I have to disagree with you on this 100%

The people I contract for brings in most of their product from China, unfortunately. But they are constantly jobbing out work locally because they cant wait for the slow boat from China. Plus, with as much quality control that goes into a product, we still catch things that get over looked that have to be fixed. So again, the local job shop get's more work fixing these parts! Of course, the cost get charged back to those in China.

But, you have to remember, there will always be a need for a job shop for those one and two parts that you got to have yesterday, and cant wait 16 weeks from China. I know, some people will run one or two parts on a CNC. But they more than likely have run the part before either for the same customer or their compediter down the road. I see this a lot with a local shop I deal with.

Ken

 

[ewlsey]

Please, for your own good, do the tiniest bit of research before your make stupid claims like this.

Fact: The United States manufactures more now than we ever have.

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2011/1/13/saupload_usmfg.jpg


Since we have not shipped all our manufacturing to China, our job shops are free to stick around.

CNC machining sure as hell has an impact of the profits of my "job shop". The cost of entry into CNC is so low now that there is no excuse for any shop to avoid it.

 

[stevewatr]

I agree with Ken's comment, and.would like to add that here in my area job shops fill a need in many ways. Fabricating new parts when a replacement part is obsolete, or going to take too long to get. Often times there is some failure analysis leading to the production of an improved design. There are a good number of small shops around many are family businesses on their second or third generation. Many have machines 50 to 100 years old.

Steve. W.

 

[BrianB]

Not sure why this thread has turned into a war between CNC and manual machines, but I own and run a part time job shop10-30hr/week. I have a old CNC that is in great shape but it has only been used twice in the last year. I can typically do the repair or make the part in less time than I can program the job, that being said if I was a CNC programming expert I could maybe do better, but I get the same results doing it the old manual way. Mostly I deal with doing repair work for the ag industry and in replicating obsolete one off parts, but I also do jobs for several of the local factories because I can handle parts on my manual machines that exceed the capacity of 99% of the CNC's in the area and they want it ASAP. I do many jobs for those guys overnight. They take a line down and bring me the part after 1st shift, then 3rd maintenance comes and picks it up and they are back running the next day. If you can turn out good accurate work in a timely manner I think any kind of machine is just fine for a job shop. My shop is growing and I have several of the machines talked about in this thread. The biggest money maker though has been my 20x96 CBB Monarch. My Job shop list looks like this: Monarch 20x96, Cincinnati High Power #4, Thompson 12x24 Surface Grinder, Johnson Model J bandsaw, Lincoln IdealArc 400amp welder, Miller 350 Tig and the Cincinnati 15VC CNC mill. In the coming weeks there is going to be a Giddings and Lewis oversize 340T 84x48x96 added to the list. But I have to make space and poor concrete before I can get it up and running. I also plan to be adding a bridge crane too as I continue to find more and more work that is difficult to handle with a loader tractor/forklift.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I was going to say you could do with a 4'- 6" radial arm drill until I saw you plan to install a decent sized Hor Bore.

Regards Tyrone.

 

[4GSR]

Tyrone,

Not to throw this thread off on a longer tangent, I visited a local machine shop here that two horizontal borers, as you call them. The older one is a large Richards which is in nice shape and the other is a Hermes with Heiniman CNC controller. The only CNC machine in the shop. The rest are very large Manarch lathes, Swift lathes, and a couple of others. He does pump repairs for the local refineries and other heavy industries nearby. He also runs a foundry that is capable of pouring castings up to about 3000 lbs in a wide selections of alloys including cast iron.
Ken

 

[BrianB]

Tyrone,
I had a friend with a Big Bickford Radial arm drill and that thing was awesome for laying out bolt patterns and drilling and tapping holes fast over a large area. I should have bought it from him when he retired but moving those radial arm drills are scary to me if you don't have overhead lifting abilities.

 

[G&L4nahalf]

Not sure why this thread has turned into a war between CNC and manual machines, ...

Hi Brian

I started the thread, and I'm still not sure either

The war started from the first, and as you may see - I have been accused of anti-CNC and numerous other malfeaseousnesses including implied senility.

I did try to correct it and mentioned that yes I have run CNC and did do my own programing..

This probably won't help either but I'll give it a try..

To the list For The Record :

I was there when CNC was first introduced. Punched paper rolls. Engineers programed them. I think Devlieg was one of the first. The paper soon got oily. Think toilet paper on a machine.

I was there when they changed to metallic rolls.

I was there when the first real CNC came out. The computer part was a narrow room on the side of the machine, with the memory system consisting of a wall full of large magnetic metallic rings.

I was there when these were so unreliable, hydraulic, air and even mechanical cam control systems were a better option. And yes, I did a little work on all of the above..

I was there when the operator was expected to program his machine with toggle switches and buttons. The owner of one shop I was in bought a brand new Monarch equivalent to a # 5 or 6 Vertical Mill for me to run, and it had a marquee type display where the commands and coordinates scrolled sideways.

I was there when the retrofits came out, and programmed them.. I started programming in 1975 but will say I do hate programming and am not very good at it. Still, I was good enough to help some of the best.

I was there when the salesmen used to tell the owners something to the effect : this will let you take the dumbest sob you have and all he will have to do - is push cycle start.

I was there when owners started hiring girls who couldn't use a mike to run them.

Now, I am here - where I have seen a recent advertisement with a photograph of a VERY large place filled with rows of banks of the latest machines now cutting metal; with ONE monitor stationed about every 4 or 5 machines, with his back turned to the machines, and standing and looking at a lap-top on a simple pedestal, while he is facing the aisle. Are some of the feeds in the 400 - 500 inch speed? I heard they were.

I don't like this development for me to make a living in it.. Some find it appealing I'm sure..

I like the 60 to 80 year old antique? manual machines. About my age. How many others do too???

A nostalgic George

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Hi guys, I'd like to see photos of any " Richards " Hor bore. For me they were the best. German guys will argue for Scharmann, guys in the US will say what about Giddings Lewis and Fraser ( as it was over here ) or Lucas or Sunstrand or Bullard and the Gray planer type machines. Italy had Pensotti which was a nice machine There were a lot of good ones around then but I prefer Richards. Just my personal preference.

You can't beat a big radial arm drill for simple hole making. They're just quicker than anything outside a CNC machine. Moving them isn't so bad, you've just got to be careful. Most have a very flat base which lends itself to rollering along with steel bars or tubes. Lifting with an overhead crane can be tricky but normally it's fine as long as you follow the rules.

Regards Tyrone.

 

[BrianB]

It is OK to like old heavy iron George. After all it is the only way to experience the true gritt of metal working. With most CNC's your part is isolated in a cabinet with metal chips flying everywhere and coolant spraying at break neck speeds while you sit in your nice chair or shuttle around parts while you wait to do a change out. With manual machines you get to sit right on top of the part hovering over it watching what is going on as chunks of steel the size of potato chips are ripped off coolant is flung all over you and the shop as well as the chips while you bask in the smell of hot cutting oil and steel. When you work like that at the end of the day you feel like you have made a lot more than a living! :-) You may enjoy this video of mine Heavy Milling - YouTube where I take a 1/2" cu at 10IPM across a 6" round, or this video My "Turn" or is it about "Face" - YouTube where I do Heavy turning and Facing on the Old Monarch CBB Lathe. .350" DOC with a .030"/rev feed rate on outside of 6" round, and .300" DOC with .050/rev feed rate on face. These videos I shot for fun when I was doing some experimenting. The machines could do more but that was what I was comfortable with. I hope you enjoy the nostalgia of chip making the old ways. :-)

 

[RC99]

Not sure why this thread has turned into a war between CNC and manual machines,

It hasn't, they complement one another..

I would have a couple of manual lathes, a bridgeport style turret mill, a larger mill depending on where I was. Some sort of radial drill or geared head drill. a horizontal borer, a surface grinder, a tool cutter grinder
a CNC machining centre and a CNC lathe.

And a lot of tooling, metrology gear and soon to be grey hair when someone brings in something like this..

 

[Smoothbore]

Please, for your own good, do the tiniest bit of research before your make stupid claims like this.

Fact: The United States manufactures more now than we ever have.

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2011/1/13/saupload_usmfg.jpg


Since we have not shipped all our manufacturing to China, our job shops are free to stick around.

CNC machining sure as hell has an impact of the profits of my "job shop". The cost of entry into CNC is so low now that there is no excuse for any shop to avoid it.

So, ... while you were doing your extensive research, ... did you overlay an inflation adjustment onto your "growth" chart ?

Or examine the percentage of our GDP attributed to manufacturing ?

( In 1980 Manufacturing accounted for 20% of our GDP, ... today it's 10% ..... )


The folks at General Motors, Caterpillar, Rockwell, Sylvania, AMF, International Harvester, RCA Whirlpool, Borg-Warner, ... and guys on unemployment lines all across the "Rust Belt", are dying to learn how CNC machining by their Job Shop Vendors, will reverse their fortunes.


Today, ... and for the foreseeable future, ... Job Shops are essentially Hobby Shops, ... with ZERO potential for growth.


It's never popular to point out unpleasant truths, ... and some folks will react emotionally .....

So be it.

Job Shops that rely on any single customer, or industry, for more than 20% of their work, ... are essentially doomed.


Expecting to turn the trend for your Job Shop, by buying a "Mori", ... or God forbid, ... an Okuma, ... is like riding to the Poorhouse in a Cadillac.



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[IronReb]

It hasn't, they complement one another..

I would have a couple of manual lathes, a bridgeport style turret mill, a larger mill depending on where I was. Some sort of radial drill or geared head drill. a horizontal borer, a surface grinder, a tool cutter grinder
a CNC machining centre and a CNC lathe.

And a lot of tooling, metrology gear and soon to be grey hair when someone brings in something like this..

View attachment 115948

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The above example is why a job shop even with 40 year old equipment can thrive.
I think machine shops (job shops ) are like many other kinds of business location location location .

As long as there are power plants burning, paper mills churning and heavy equipment being used and abused we job shop machinist will have our place to make some nickels.
They can't out source all of it.

Im sure the cost to replace and lead time from OEM made what RC99 charged look pretty damn good though I am sure the customer never would tell RC99 that.

And the above job is perfect for a 1965 Monarch with an beefy ass four jaw to swing it in.

 

[kpotter]

I run old machines in my shop and I do it as my job not a hobby. I have some decent equipment because I worked for a machinerey dealer and I was able to pick the cream of the crop.
1. Lodge and Shipley model x in mint condition 1958
2. Pratt and Whitney model B.
3. Warner and swasey #3
4. Hardinge dv59
5. K&T #3 vertical
6. K&T #2 ch horizontal
7. K&T #2 vertical
8. BP J head
9. Tree 2uvr
10. Lagun with 40taper
11. Shizouka ans vertical mill
12 K&T autometric horizontal boring mill.
13. Cincinatti 20 inch unversal shaper
14. Thompson 12x24 grinder
15. Harig 6x12 grinder
16. Doall vertical bandsaw with hydraulic power feed and every accesory
17. Cininatti radial drill
18. Doall horizontal saw.
20. Rivette 10x20s sold because I never used it and needed cash to buy a building

 

[ewlsey]

Today, ... and for the foreseeable future, ... Job Shops are essentially Hobby Shops, ... with ZERO potential for growth.


It's never popular to point out unpleasant truths, ... and some folks will react emotionally .....

So be it.

Job Shops that rely on any single customer, or industry, for more than 20% of their work, ... are essentially doomed.


Expecting to turn the trend for your Job Shop, by buying a "Mori", ... or God forbid, ... an Okuma, ... is like riding to the Poorhouse in a Cadillac.



.

What in the hell are you droning on about? I own a job shop. It's growing. It provides for me and my employees.

I could show you thousands of others.



It's the same thing for farming. 100 years ago, half of all Americans were employed in some job involving agriculture. The number is in the low single digits now. Yet crop production is higher than ever. Should everyone just stop farming because less people are involved now?


Why don't you come down here and tell Caterpillar how a return to manual machining will save the world

 

[rustdreamer]

I would think a General Electric or Kitchen Aid coffee pot would be on any list for a "real" shop.

 

[Limy Sami]

Before this gets to prybars at dawn could it be the case, there are job shops and then there are job shops.

In other words - Horses for courses.

 

[sable]

I have a job shop ,it's basically just me ,I have manual machines similar to the dream lists above ,a couple of cnc 's and a prototrak mill ,for years I was stacked out ,barely able to cope but recently, for various reasons the work has evaporated , I don't care what anyone says ,there is a certain amount of luck in coming across the right kind of work that you can charge a decent amount for when you run a job shop, especially with manual machines.

 

[Smoothbore]

What in the hell are you droning on about? I own a job shop. It's growing. It provides for me and my employees.

I could show you thousands of others.

OK, ... but let's keep it simple, ... limit your list to just 1000 thriving, expanding "Job Shops" that are adding measurable profitability, through the use of CNC machines.




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