Namco brake? issues

[Archer120x]

I saw a thread once somewhere (may have been on here?) where somebody was having drive motor issues.
And, a few guys that knew their shit (about hydraulics) told the guy he was pretty much screwed, "scrap it".
That situation would more than break my heart.

They are just some kind of Char-lynn hydraulic motor. I'm trying to identify the model now so I can buy seals or straight up replacements.

 

[wheelieking71]

The older book I have, that matches my machine, shows band brakes. The 74-75 book I have shows drum brakes.
The older book also shows an optional hydraulic brake lock. I guess you ordered that option of you were in the NAMCO drag racing circuit of yesteryear?
Both books also show a parking brake gear and pawl system that I don't see on my machine. That also must have been an option.
Is it possible that, on your machine, the master cylinder isn't retracting enough to open the port to the reservoir with the pedal all the way down? Air in the line could be expanding with nowhere to go.
You are right, if I go forward and let go of the lever, it coasts to a stop.

I'm not 100% sure what year mine is. But, I think it is '74 or newer.
The ID plate shows Model# LC-2020L Serial# 7812241

It would appear at a glance to be drum brakes. The only brake system diagram I can find on line is the early band style.

 

[Archer120x]

Band brakes look like this.

 

[Archer120x]

This is the drum brake diagram.

 

[Archer120x]

FYI, I have no idea why you guys have issues posting pics.....

 

[wheelieking71]

View attachment 293239
Band brakes look like this.View attachment 293239

Yea, I definitely don't have that!

 

[russler]

Disregard what I said earlier, I was talking about the band type brakes.
On drum brakes, your problem maybe due to a loose and or broken friction lining, or maybe return spring failure.

 

[Glock34]

The brakes on most stand on forklifts use the spring applied, hydraulically released system, probably for safety reasons, like truck air brakes.
The answer is actually pretty simple if you flip your thinking. If you've ever had a master cylinder on a car go bad, what happens? You're coming up to, or sitting at, a stop, and the pedal will begin to move toward the floor.
In a spring applied, hydraulically released system, the same thing happens, but your foot is stationary, so as fluid bleeds by the cups in the master, the spring applies the brake. Based on this, and the fact that you stated that there was a lot of crud in the master, which is the deteriorated cup seals, I am certain that you have a bad master cylinder. (BTW, I am a forklift technician, and have seen this many times.) Good luck.
Ted

 

[wheelieking71]

In a spring applied, hydraulically released system, the same thing happens, but your foot is stationary, so as fluid bleeds by the cups in the master, the spring applies the brake. Based on this, and the fact that you stated that there was a lot of crud in the master, which is the deteriorated cup seals, I am certain that you have a bad master cylinder. (BTW, I am a forklift technician, and have seen this many times.) Good luck.
Ted

In red ^^^^^ what spring applies the brake? Certainly not the main large spring that keeps the brakes applied when there isn't anybody on the machine.
Because, once I hop up there, I stomp that pedal down, and very rarely (if ever) do I let up on it to actually apply the brake.
That is one of the beauties of the namco. Finesse. With a low rpm, hydraulic machine? On flat ground you pretty much don't need brakes.

 

[Glock34]

In red ^^^^^ what spring applies the brake? Certainly not the main large spring that keeps the brakes applied when there isn't anybody on the machine.
Because, once I hop up there, I stomp that pedal down, and very rarely (if ever) do I let up on it to actually apply the brake.
That is one of the beauties of the namco. Finesse. With a low rpm, hydraulic machine? On flat ground you pretty much don't need brakes.

Yes, the "main large spring" is what stops, and holds the unit from travelling. When you push the pedal down, you are using hydraulic pressure to overcome the tension in that spring and release the brakes.

With modern electronic technology, like regenerative braking and contactorless transistor controls, the acceleration rate, deceleration rate, top speed, etc. parameters on just about any newer electric lift can be set so that it will speed up and slow down at any reasonable rate, travel slow enough to make you want to fall asleep, or fast enough to barely keep up with, and the electronic control will never let it run away down a ramp. No master cylinder to worry about either, all stand up forklifts and walkie pallet jacks that I am aware of have electric brakes.

Ted

 

[wheelieking71]

Yes, the "main large spring" is what stops, and holds the unit from travelling. When you push the pedal down, you are using hydraulic pressure to overcome the tension in that spring and release the brakes.

With modern electronic technology, like regenerative braking and contactorless transistor controls, the acceleration rate, deceleration rate, top speed, etc. parameters on just about any newer electric lift can be set so that it will speed up and slow down at any reasonable rate, travel slow enough to make you want to fall asleep, or fast enough to barely keep up with, and the electronic control will never let it run away down a ramp. No master cylinder to worry about either, all stand up forklifts and walkie pallet jacks that I am aware of have electric brakes.

Ted

In red ^^^^ naw, not how I see it. More like: when you step on the pedal, it releases the hydraulic pressure that applies the brakes.
The only thing overcoming the spring pressure is your foot. Not sure if you worded that wrong? Or, don't understand this system?

And, why bring "modern tech" in to this? Seriously, this is about a Namco from the '70's. The second part of your post is completely irrelevant.
And, I couldn't give less shits about an electric forklift. Garbage in my eyes. You couldn't give me one for free.

 

[kineticmx]

Hi wheelie king,
I also have a namco with the band brakes. It sure does sound like you have a case of the brake bands wrapping, since you say it is sporadic and moving backwards frees them up. I would try and loosen the adjuster down on the bands. The guy giving input seems to be be misunderstanding the operating principal of these brakes.

Pressing your foot down on the pedal relieves the pressure on the master cylinder, releasing the brakes. Lifting your foot allows the spring force to push on the master cylinder applying the brakes.

My lift has no working brakes at all. My bands are adjusted all the way tight and they don’t engage. I see the part numbers listed for the wheel cylinders and master cylinder, but does anyone know where I can track down the bands themselves?

I also have a pretty substantial hydraulic leak. Im trying to pin it down but right now it’s looking like its either the tilt cylinder or one of the wheel motors. If I pull the wheels off to service the wheel motors it would be nice to do the brakes at the same time as well.

Teddy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ray Behner]

I think he said he does not have that style.

 

[Archer120x]

Yes, the "main large spring" is what stops, and holds the unit from travelling. When you push the pedal down, you are using hydraulic pressure to overcome the tension in that spring and release the brakes.

With modern electronic technology, like regenerative braking and contactorless transistor controls, the acceleration rate, deceleration rate, top speed, etc. parameters on just about any newer electric lift can be set so that it will speed up and slow down at any reasonable rate, travel slow enough to make you want to fall asleep, or fast enough to barely keep up with, and the electronic control will never let it run away down a ramp. No master cylinder to worry about either, all stand up forklifts and walkie pallet jacks that I am aware of have electric brakes.

Ted

This isn't how a NAMCO is set up. The master cylinder pressure is maintained by the spring. Foot pedal is what pulls back on the master cylinder to release the brakes.

 

[wheelieking71]

Hi wheelie king, I also have a namco with the band brakes.

I don't have the band brakes. It appears my machine has the drum brakes.

I have not had a chance to tear in to it yet.

 

[Glock34]

Archer 120X,

If that is the way the Namco was built, then I stand corrected. To me, an "old" forklift is mid to late 1980's manufacture.

Sometimes, "they don't build them like they used to", is a good thing.

 

[wheelieking71]

I still have not taken the time to tear in to the little guy and see if I can determine just what is going on. But, I need to!
It was acting better for a little while. Then, last night, it had a bad event that damn near locked it up solid.
I seriously can't tell if it is the brakes, or a hydraulic issue. I'm praying its the brakes.

 

[wheelieking71]

Archer 120X,

If that is the way the Namco was built, then I stand corrected. To me, an "old" forklift is mid to late 1980's manufacture.

Sometimes, "they don't build them like they used to", is a good thing.

If you ever had used a Namco, you probably wouldn't think that.
For anybody struggling with small spaces, there really is nothing better.
I don't know of any thing else that can move 3,000lbs around that can drive right through a regular sized man-door.
And, being propane/hydraulic, the controls are about as silky smooth as physically possible.
Mine very rarely even comes off idle.

Yes, I am aware they are only rated for 1,900lbs.
But, I have moved 3,000+ around on more than one occasion, no problem. It only grunts a little picking it up (at idle).

 

[Glock34]

I have had to work on a few Namcos years ago, and was not at all impressed. Loud, smelly, leaky, clunky and awkward to operate. That is my opinion, but what do I know, I've only been working on forklifts for 25 years.

Picking up 3000lbs with a lift rated at less than 2/3 of that is dangerous. Not that it doesn't happen every day, just not in my shop.

Mariotti Forklifts USA | Compact Narrow Aisle Forklift Manufacturer | I have a couple of the Mini's that I service, ironically, one in a machine shop, and they love them.

Ted


BTW, my personal shop is in my barn, which is an old flat roof chicken coop. There is a post every 10 feet, and I use a Toyota 3 wheel electric. Sometimes it's tight, and I don't have to go through man doors, but I wouldn't trade it for a dozen Namcos.

 

[Archer120x]

Mine very rarely even comes off idle.

My friend was using mine while I was away. He ran it at idle the whole time because he couldn't find the throttle!