Haas 1998 HS-1RP Troubleshooting(repost)

[countryguy]

hi D. HEck.. did you see this thread has over 15K in views? wow.
yep wild-leg is also called the Manufactured leg. If you are running everything and have no issues in the house, shop, etc- should be good to go... but I'll toss some things out that we had to do here.

On the rear hookup taps on the Haas here is what I do just to get a sense of whats going on. I have a Fluke Digimeter w/ min/max button. Even the cheap digitals from HF have that now as well. As you leave it on.. it will snap the lowest AC voltage seen and display it.

Some backdrop- When I noted to put the wild-leg on the center leg on the other post. When we did that we later found that someone had twisted that down thru the breaker individual wire path. By that I mean wires run thru the master switch contactor, to another pull in type, then down to the transformer taps hookups. So someone had inadvertantly move a wire around with another. Ohm check that if you're of the opinion (as some posters are here on Haas w/ RPC's for the wild-leg placement).

Once the machine is powered up, I put the meter in MIN mode. Place the leads on the single-phase taps with alligator clip-ons for the meter (many come w/ these) and leave it on and run some loads. Start firing up the speeds and some high speed spindle & test loads with the compressor cranking, the lights on et. Conditions you would run a job on. See what your minimum AC single phase hits.

Then I had to move 1 of the leads to the wild-leg, place on MIN and run again. Watch the min voltage here.

Why: on my side... the 10K pole Xformer sagged terribly on high loading and in Summer months. 213AC type sags. And the RPC would sag to say 225 (guessing.. dont' really remember). With this condition of the 'Power company' not able to supply the load I needed, the Haas would Alarm w/ a phase out of tolerance because the generated leg was 10% different. (something like that. it's in my other posts).

We also observed that while the PowerCo power was no-load at 239-240AC, the RPC was putting 259AC w/ no load and stayed on the high end. So I had two issues here. A higher line RPC value, and a sagging power company issue. Calling the RPC MFR was rather useless. a CNC RPC that did not keep tolerance to the main line is something for another day. This was solved by a) the new pole 25K Xformer (which is still not great but errors mostly subsided) AND b) added the phase-a-matic voltage conditioner which is basically just a reference transformer to take the 260 wildleg and moved it down to 245AC. (it's all on their site) I now ended up w/ 240 AC single phase and 245 RPC generated leg. This is far closer to each other to stem any phase mismatch errors when under loads and summer neighbor AC load issues and the new transformer loading is similar and close to the RPB sag. in the end- Balanced!

The 240 single phase coming in. If your in a residential place? 50K transformer, 20K? My last place was a 50KV Xformer running 4 to 5 houses w/ underground lines. This place is rural, far spread, and had a dinky 10KV pole xformer for two homes with shops. (neighbor has a biz too). It is all related. a 400amp panel in your shop is super... but the pole probably does not supply that type of amperage load anyway? Find find your pole and see what the Xformer (xformer = transformer) rating is is just something to know IMO.

I ended up going with the american rotary adx 60, I upgraded the whole house to a 400 amp single phase panel, and put in a 200 amp panel in the garage. im running the phase converter off of a 200 amp breaker right at the top below the main breaker for the sub panel, so the resistance should be minimal. I was talking to the haas guy while he was servicing our office mill at my work, and he said the motors are actually rated at 15hp, and have a 30hp drive, so the 60hp phase converter is likely overkill despite the machine having the 30hp branding, and the American rotary recommendation of double the horsepower. My compressor only draws about 15 amps,from the single phase panel, if it causes an issue I can run a dedicated line from the main panel. My main concern is the incoming lines from the pole are a lot thinner than what I used to make the run for the subpanel, so if anything that will be where the voltage drops.


thats ma' story! Hope is helps. It's all soblable usually, that is the good news.



By wild leg I assume you mean what American rotary calls the manufactured leg. I know what the wild leg is on standard 3 phase, I don't know the terminology for the 3 phase legs that comes out of rotary.

I took the y axis ball screw out and its quite pitted, but its not that difficult to remove, so im not going to wait until I get a new one to put the machine back together. I also got a sand blaster and a parts cleaner so I can repaint all the rusted sheet metal.

 

[D Farms]

So after months of dicking around with some guy on ebay who was parting out an HS-1 I started doing some research. One of the ball screws on a vf3 is apparently nearly identical to the y axis ball screw on the hs1. He only wanted $400, and it looked to be in decent shape. I asked him to measure the overall length of the screw and he basically told me to shove it. I tried getting the other guy with the Hs1 parts to pull the screw but he kept making excuses. So I just decided to pull the trigger on the vf3 screw, and return it if it didnt fit. The screw came in and it has the upper and lower mounts with bearings from the vf3, and its the correct length. Now the kicker is the y axis on the hs-1 has a reversed nut, so in theory now all I have to do is turn a tube thats the minor diameter of the ball screw, unthread the screw onto the tube so I dont loose the balls, then turn it around and thread it back on.

 

[D Farms]

Old screw on the right, new screw on the left. Big difference.

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk

 

[countryguy]

The fun of these units for sure- Boldly go man! Hope all is well.

Old screw on the right, new screw on the left. Big difference.

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk

 

[D Farms]

The fun of these units for sure- Boldly go man! Hope all is well.

I got the screw installed, and today I was just chasing a few ghosts, a few different errors relating to cables with wonky connections. The connectors at the end of the cables have this green tinge to them, and that means corrosion. My quick fix is to spray them with electronic parts cleaner, then fill the connector with dielectric grease and plug it in and out several times to break through the corrosion. I found a bunch of wires that had be twisted together, soldered, then heat shrink wrapped or taped, I redid them with waterproof heat shrink crimps if possible, or the water proof sweat solder deals if the wires were too small for the crimps I had. I did find one of the flowmeters for the oil system. I looked through the service manual, and they are mentioned no where, but they are fairly easy to spot if you know what to look for. if you see a copper oil line that has a flare fitting that has two hex sections, the second hex section is the flowmeter. I asked Ellison to order me all the flowmeters, and the lady didn't know what I was talking about.

 

[countryguy]

Been awhile. Good to hear. I use these folks. Lubrication Systems, Showa, Bijur, Vogel, Trabon, Daikin, Tuthill, Chen Ying, Alemite, Daido - Call Toll Free (800) 323-3826
The guy (forgot his name) reply's really fast, and I bought my Haas and Supermax flow-restrictors 1/2 the price.
There's often a number stamped on them for the flow rate. if not, I think I've seen some labeled on the haas lub schematic.... Have so many parts I just email him w/ my needs usually.

I got the screw installed, and today I was just chasing a few ghosts, a few different errors relating to cables with wonky connections. The connectors at the end of the cables have this green tinge to them, and that means corrosion. My quick fix is to spray them with electronic parts cleaner, then fill the connector with dielectric grease and plug it in and out several times to break through the corrosion. I found a bunch of wires that had be twisted together, soldered, then heat shrink wrapped or taped, I redid them with waterproof heat shrink crimps if possible, or the water proof sweat solder deals if the wires were too small for the crimps I had. I did find one of the flowmeters for the oil system. I looked through the service manual, and they are mentioned no where, but they are fairly easy to spot if you know what to look for. if you see a copper oil line that has a flare fitting that has two hex sections, the second hex section is the flowmeter. I asked Ellison to order me all the flowmeters, and the lady didn't know what I was talking about.

 

[D Farms]

I repainted the outside of the tool changer carousel, and cleaned and wire brushed all the corrosion off the spring finger mechanisms. I ordered new door springs from haas a while ago, the original ones were mostly broken and not working. I also ended up repainting a bunch of the panels of the machine that I had removed from the machine. I couldn't find anything close to the factory colors, so they got a few coats of rust oleum black enamel spray paint, and I removed all rust and sanded the panels smooth, as least as much as I could.

 

[D Farms]

I guess the image never loaded haha

 

[D Farms]

Finally got to the bottom of the list of things that need to be repainted before putting it back together. Tool changer going back in this week! So far Ive sanded down and repainted all the panels I had taken off to get it in the garage. I couldnt find a grey that was close to the haas grey, so I settled on black.

when I first got it


after repaint


I have some cold blue paste that works a treat, so ill probably redo the spindle nose at some point, but now its time to put all the parts back in and make chips.

 

[D Farms]

My buddy came over, who has been a huge help in putting the machine back together properly, and helped me get the tool changer put back on! we plugged everything back in, and in classic haas fashion there are 4 plugs that are all compatible. it took a bit but we sorted them all out except one. the tool changer door switch wasn't working. I swapped the pins and then it stopped the error.

Another error popped up, error 166. according to the manual:
166 Y Zero Ret Margin Too Small:

This alarm indicates that the zero return position may not be
consistent from one zero return to the next. The encoder Y
channel signal must occur between 1/8 and 7/8 revolution of
where the home switch releases. This will not turn the servos off
but will stop the zero return operation. This alarm can occur if the
home/limit switches are moved or misadjusted.

Obviously we had just replaced the ball screw, and I didn't bother to clock the thing.
Steps 8 and 9 of y axis motor install:

8. Check that Parameter 211, "Y-Axis Tool Change Offset", is set correctly, and adjust if necessary.
9. Set the grid offset after the new motor has been installed.

3.17 GRID OFFSET CALCULATION
Please read this section in its entirety before attempting to set the grid offset.
Guidelines -
The encoder Z channel signal must occur between 1/8 and 7/8 revolution from where the home switch is
released. If DISTANCE TO GO is less than 1/8 (.0295) or greater than 7/8 (.2065) of a revolution, it will alarm to
“Zero Return Margin Too Small”.
In ZERO RETURN mode, the DISTANCE TO GO is the amount the encoder rotated from when the switch was
released until it found the Z channel signal. The ideal amount for the DISTANCE TO GO is .118 (This equals ½
of a revolution of the encoder).
Setting the Offset -
1. Set the grid offset to zero. (Parameter 125,126, 127, 128, or 170, depending on the axis being set.)
Setting #7 (PARAMETER LOCK) must be OFF to reset grid offset.
2. Press ZERO RET and ZERO SINGL AXIS the axis you are setting (X, Y, Z, A, or B).
3. Calculate the grid offset using the following formula, and write the result in Parameter 125,126,
127, 128, or 170 (depending on the axis being set).
(DISTANCE TO GO - .118) x Ratio = Grid Offset
The Ratio (steps/unit) for the X, Y, Z, A, and B axes are the values in Parameters 5, 19, 33, 47, and 155,
respectively.
4. ZERO RET the axis again to use this offset.
NOTE: If Z-axis grid offset is reset, Parameter 64 should be checked and adjusted
accordingly.
Setting the Offset using the Grid Feature
The control will calculate grid offset parameters (125, 126, 127, and so on) using the ‘GRID’ command. It is
recommended that the GRID command be used on each axis separately as follows:
1) Turn the machine off and back on. This will un-zero all the axes.
2) Select the ALARMS screen and enter DEBUG mode.
3) Perform a ZERO SINGLE AXIS on each of the desired axes individually. Ignore any ZERO RET
MARGIN TOO SMALL alarms. Note: if a SERVO ERROR TOO LARGE alarm was generated, this
indicates that a GRID OFFSET parameter is out of range (make sure it is -138718 to +138718.)
4) Select the Positions screen, enter GRID and press ENTER. The message GRID OFSET DONE
should appear and the GRID OFFSET parameters for the homed axes will have been updated. If
the message “NO ZERO” appears, this indicates that none of the axes had been zeroed.
5) Perform AUTO ALL AXIS and verify that the DIST TO GO value for each of the selected axes is now
close to 0.118".

 

[D Farms]

Ok got that sorted. now im getting error 234, we had ran into this when we powered the machine on right after puting the y axis ball screw in. I found a pair of dodgy wires coming off the spindle encoder harness, and repaired them as best I could, and the error didnt go away. then we tried putting some dielectric grease in it, and plugged it in and out a few times and I believe the error went away. I tried doing the same thing and now its perma errored, so now the next thing is to pin out the harness and verify its integrity.

I found this on ebay, I guess its the right cable, impossible to tell from the manual.

33-1000A CABLE, 1000 SPINDLE ENCODER 10 PIN 10.0 FT NO OVERHEAT | eBay

 

[D Farms]

Well there's your problem.

 

[D Farms]

atx connectors on a pc are identical to the connectors haas uses. I snipped a male pin and wire out of a spar splitter and spliced it in place. spindle encoder error went away. z axis was having an intermittent grid error, used the procedure above to fix that. got the machine to power restart with zero error codes.


Next:
Lower Y axis bellows are trashed.
I un-warped the right side bellows that were warped, but now the left side bellows are warped.
Bellow side panels need to be bolted in place.
Upper bellow rails need to be bolted in place.
Tool changer upper panels need to be put in place.
Rear machine access panel needs to be put in place.
Coolant pump and tank need to be addressed.
Machine top panel needs to be addressed.
Chip auger is full of aluminum chips, not sure if it even works.
Spindle taper need to be dressed at least by hand using prussian blue and a good tool taper and some scraping.

 

[D Farms]

I went to do a pallet change and Womp Womp, it wasnt able to change the pallets. I put an easier to read gauge on the air gun line that comes off the machine manifold, the air drops from 95 to 60 while trying to do the pallet change.

CALIFORNIA AIR TOOLS 20040SPCAD is the compressor I have. It's a 4 hp with a relatively small 20 gallon tank but the main draw is its only 65db when running, is oil free and has an auto drain. I added another 2hp 10 gallon compressor to the system and it still couldn't change the pallet. I had bought an 80 gallon tank to add to the system when I needed it, so ill try that and see how it works.

I knew from the start the flow from the compressor's tanks was really limited, I think they have 3/8 od lines or maybe even 1/4 at the output, so ya know, needs more chooch. I really like the compressor I have, its extremely quiet, and I keep it in the garage which has nice dry cool air, and I know a lot of people use these, so maybe this info can be of help to others. There are two compressors in the cabinet, they each feed into a manifold through individual 3/8in lines. then the manifold outputs through one line to the regulator. the regulator then outputs to a 1/4 quick disconnect. so all the air has to travel through that fitting.

The solution is to make a large manifold where both lines feed into, then that manifold feeds the internal tank, and has an inlet for the external 80 gallon tank. the manifold would also need an outlet to go to a high flow regulator.

All this being said, every other air powered function works correctly, these modifications would just be to improve the performance if needed.

I tried to use the chip auger and it doesn't respond, no error codes. I found the wiring for it so ill dig into it when I get the chance. its a nice to have feature for me, not a needed one.

I looked in the cabinet, and there are spare plugs for the b axis encoder motor control and air brake, so that's cool. I assumed they were used by the tool changer for some reason.

 

[D Farms]

I plumbed the 80 gallon tank in and timed the pallet change for when the pressure was the highest, and it was able to do a pallet change. I also bit the bullet and ordered a replacement lower y axis bellows, and found a pair of sunon fans on amazon(prime) to replace the rusty?? ones in the vector drive. also it took a bit of digging, but I found that the flow meters for the oil system are located on the manifolds right before they get to the trucks/ballscrew/spindle. haas doesnt list them specifically in the manual, and they also dont say what the flow rate is for each one, other than they say they are all equal?

 

[D Farms]

I got one of the bellows back in place, the one that was badly warped. well the other one that wasnt warped got warped when it was sitting out side the machine. I tried putting it back in with a friend's help, and it wasnt lining up, we took it out to try to straighten the ribs, which was working. then I decided to measure one of the ribs, and it was about and inch and half shorter than the longest one. somehow the rib shrunk. ended up ordering a new bellows.... this is the last piece before I can start making chips so i bit the bullet.