Bad luck hiring experienced employees

[wheelieking71]

I have a really good life insurance policy. Pretty sure the plan is for my wife to retire when I have a stroke at 50.

Yea, me too. My old-lady will be set if I kick the bucket. (I turn 51 in April, LOL)

FWIW I have found the one-man-band to be practically impossible if you are going to run a "legitimate" job shop.

By the time I pay for utilities, software, insurance, rent, taxes, etc... That's over 100k/yr before I even start drawing a salary. There's a pretty significant minimum overhead, unless you are working on BobCAD out of a building zoned for agricultural use.

I can make $250k/yr by myself easy, but keeping the lights on costs so much I won't make over 100k in salary unless I have some employees to help amortize all of the costs associated with just having a machine shop of any size.

As discouraged with this trade as I am right now, I am in a killer position. Shop is at home, tons of capability/capacity for a one man shop.
Just let my software maint. go, so that expense is gone. Payroll will be zero in less than a month. Switching from S-corp back to LLC.
No more workman's comp. ins. Probably going to drop the comprehensive on the iron. May even nix the accountant (not cheap!)
I'm pretty sure we are going to take a small chunk of our "nugget", and just pay the two machines I still owe on, OFF.
My overhead should literally be utilities, consumables, and shop maintenance very soon. It isn't impossible to attain a successful one man job shop status.
But it is not easy to get there! I can not imagine it working well in a non-owned shop/space. Lease/Rent is wasted money as far as I am concerned.

 

[Ox]

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[cnctoolcat]

Small shop accounting is simple, nix the accountant.

Use Quickbooks on the computer.

Make your company payroll tax deposits each month online, takes 5 minutes.

Quarterly reports might take 30 minutes…

Do your own annual company tax returns by following previous years done by the accountant.

S-Corp/LLC tax returns are straightforward - simple as my personal 1040.

ToolCat

 

[otrlt]

We find that the guys we trained in-house are running circles around these other guys we're hiring with 20-30 years experience.
On paper they all seem to really know their stuff, and they certainly look the part with their fancy kennedy rollers that they bring in stocked full of tools- but in reality I just don't get how they've been surviving all this time at other shops given their setup times & work ethic. If I were quoting jobs at the time it's taking them I'd never win a bid again - not to mention these guys want paid like $30/hr which is significantly higher than most of our employees.

Hello g0Jack,
From what you have said I believe you are doing quite well in your training practices. The main issue that I have recognized is that in your location, you will never find a "true machinist".

 

[john.k]

if you want true machinists ,look at the Pakistani utubes.....guys making pistons for a Hino diesel truck from scrap,making cylinder liners from scrap,truck axles from scrap.....didnt see one micrometer or vernier...just firm jointed calipers...thats true machinists ........you lot are talking button pushers.

 

[otrlt]

Only simple if you are ready to be the first martyr to that cause.

I am told pretty frequently that we are too expensive, and I only target around $100/hr for 5 axis work.

Your selling time, try selling skill.

If you don't understand what I have just typed,

your toast

 

[boosted]

Your selling time, try selling skill.

If you don't understand what I have just typed,

your toast

No, I don't understand what you have typed, because I'm literate. You are is abbreviated you're.

As usual, thanks for offering advise that's totally worthless other than an implication that you're much more talented than any fool who might be reading this. Still waiting for you to post up some numbers about your shop's performance. I suspect it would be pretty underwhelming relative to the amount of grandstanding and self congratulating. As for me - I get by just fine, but I am totally aware that the vast majority of prospective customers out there really only care about price, and was trying to make an observation about how that may affect this industry in the near term.

 

[otrlt]

No, I don't understand what you have typed, because I'm literate. You are is abbreviated you're.

As usual, thanks for offering advise that's totally worthless other than an implication that you're much more talented than any fool who might be reading this. Still waiting for you to post up some numbers about your shop's performance. I suspect it would be pretty underwhelming relative to the amount of grandstanding and self congratulating. As for me - I get by just fine, but I am totally aware that the vast majority of prospective customers out there really only care about price, and was trying to make an observation about how that may affect this industry in the near term.

I do not give advise.
what I have stated is from your own words. The reoccurring problem with shops like yours is that with all of your money and might you have forgotten to be a "craftsmen", and your customers complain that your prices are too high.

tell me, who has a problem here, me or you?

 

[john.k]

cost is No1 because the whole lot can be done in China as good as you are doing it and a whole lot cheaper......if the Chinese could get their act together and get rid of the idiots making worthless junk ,just like the Japs did in the 60s,then watch out.

 

[wheelieking71]

Your selling time, try selling skill.

If you don't understand what I have just typed,

your toast

Once again, you make absolutely zero sense.

I do not give advise.
what I have stated is from your own words. The reoccurring problem with shops like yours is that with all of your money and might you have forgotten to be a "craftsmen", and your customers complain that your prices are too high.

tell me, who has a problem here, me or you?

Looked like advice, and/or an accusation. Towards somebody you know absolutely nothing about. You can only make biased assumptions.
Then throw it out there on the interwebs. But some of us remember screen names based on the things they have said in the past.
I remember when you told a whole pile of us that we were not talented enough to make accurate jaws.
And that your jaws (an idea you copied) are the best jaws on the planet basically by default because you made them.
Most of us probably just consider the source when we see something you typed, and chuckle.

 

[otrlt]

cost is No1 because the whole lot can be done in China as good as you are doing it and a whole lot cheaper......if the Chinese could get their act together and get rid of the idiots making worthless junk ,just like the Japs did in the 60s,then watch out.

Good Morning John K,
If your costumers primary concern is cost, you have a serious problem. However, this condition can be remedied. I will not divulge (on social media) how I eliminated this exact same problem.

 

[boosted]

tell me, who has a problem here, me or you?

Clearly it's you. I never said anything about my customers complaining about price.

Again - just trying to say that this constant search for the lowest bidder has bad implications for the industry as a whole. Even if some of us find a way to get and retain the top 5% of customers, the prospects for employees stuck in the other 95% of shops looks bleak.

 

[otrlt]

Clearly it's you. I never said anything about my customers complaining about price.

On the 6th you stated; "I am told pretty frequently that we are too expensive, and I only target around $100/hr for 5 axis work. If I tried to jack up pricing 25% or 50%, we'd start running out of jobs.

If we all started charging appropriately it might work out, but it also might just hasten the shift of production to China. From the top down we (and our customers) are addicted to cheap manufactured goods."

 

[CarbideBob]

Seems that some here do not like having employees.
I am the opposite.
Somewhere in the 10 to 40 would be the sweet spot in my experience.
Three to six is a pain on insurance, sick days called in and extra paperwork.
Above 40 or so and it's hard to get to know your people.
Now I am a one man band with some helpers and the thrill is gone.

For sure have had bad luck hiring "experienced machinists". They are harder to teach than someone you find at a Wendy's drive up window.
You have to step on them much harder out of the gate and they will not like this assault on their pride and knowledge.
One has learned things and knows things and some yahoo new stupid boss wants to upset my applecart. Any owner, boss or manger needs to understand and how to deal with it.
Bob

 

[wheelieking71]

Good Morning John K,
If your costumers primary concern is cost, you have a serious problem. However, this condition can be remedied. I will not divulge (on social media) how I eliminated this exact same problem.

You already did. We remember. You are a righteous craftsman, something most of us could only fantasize about becoming.
Right? Am I right? Because that is sure how you spelled it out in that other thread a while back. I remember real well (you making a fool of yourself).
But in reality, all you did was luck in to a customer that had work that fit squarely in your wheelhouse.

 

[otrlt]

Seems that some here do not like having employees.
I am the opposite.

I do agree with you Bob,
Without good support, a shop's future is grim. A shops most valuable asset aside from the customer base are it's people. I will also add that the likelihood of having more than 6 topnotch toolmakers under 1 roof is fantasy. My personal experience in this profession, I never seen a shop with more than 10, that was over 40 years ago.

 

[boosted]

Doesn’t say anything about my customers in there, just an observation from somebody who gets plenty of RFQ’s…

 

[Ox]

Seems that some here do not like having employees.
I am the opposite.
Somewhere in the 10 to 40 would be the sweet spot in my experience.
Three to six is a pain on insurance, sick days called in and extra paperwork.
Above 40 or so and it's hard to get to know your people.
Now I am a one man band with some helpers and the thrill is gone.

For sure have had bad luck hiring "experienced machinists". They are harder to teach than someone you find at a Wendy's drive up window.
You have to step on them much harder out of the gate and they will not like this assault on their pride and knowledge.
One has learned things and knows things and some yahoo new stupid boss wants to upset my applecart. Any owner, boss or manger needs to understand and how to deal with it.
Bob

APPLE CART!

That is likely less overhead than a hot dog cart?
I think that we should leave this as an open option!


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[otrlt]

You already did. We remember. You are a righteous craftsman, something most of us could only fantasize about becoming.
Right? Am I right? Because that is sure how you spelled it out in that other thread a while back. I remember real well (you making a fool of yourself).
But in reality, all you did was luck in to a customer that had work that fit squarely in your wheelhouse.

Hello wheely,
What you need to know is I stand behind every thing that I say. The reason that most dislike me is because I'm honest and I don't speak riddle. I've been making shit longer than most of you dickheads been alive.

If you want to treat me with respect, I will be your friend,

and I will help you.

 

[otrlt]

You must be older than God's debauched bachelor Uncle?
Helluva guy to go pub-crawling wit' down Lockhart Road, Wan Chai, "back in the day"!

Being about.. 63 years away from first chip that paid my wage, as it were, I'll take the "dickhead" option thanks.
Reincarnation might exist?

I leave the making of "shit" to a healthy bowel, not a machinashitist.

Beside. I'm PICKY about what sort of critter I call "friend".

Yes Thermite,
I understand your concern, it's a new year thermite and I want to make piece with you as well.