HELP: Removing the motor from my K&T 2HL

[MyLilMule]

[FONT=&quot]This is driving me a bit nuts. I'm trying to remove the motor from my 2HL to clean the 2" of gunk underneath the motor plate and on everything else. But I am stuck.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I have the 2 rear bolts off. But there is no way, that I can see, to get to the front bolts. At least not without removing the fan and pulley, which is pressed onto the motor shaft, so I can't see that being how.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Do I need to remove the pivot plate and the motor all at the same time? But I can't see how I can get behind the motor to loosen the lock screws on the pivot pins.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Any tips or tricks I can try?[/FONT]

 

[Richard King]

From the photo's in the manual it looks like there are covers on both sides.
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2098/25820.pdf

 

[ramsay1]

[FONT="]This is driving me a bit nuts. I'm trying to remove the motor from my 2HL to clean the 2" of gunk underneath the motor plate and on everything else. But I am stuck.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#141414][FONT="]I have the 2 rear bolts off. But there is no way, that I can see, to get to the front bolts. At least not without removing the fan and pulley, which is pressed onto the motor shaft, so I can't see that being how.[/FONT]

[FONT="]Do I need to remove the pivot plate and the motor all at the same time? But I can't see how I can get behind the motor to loosen the lock screws on the pivot pins.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#141414][FONT="]Any tips or tricks I can try?[/FONT]

Hello: I took my motor out years ago to clean and also to get to the pecker head to change to lower voltage... I had to take the pulley and fan off as I recall.... I think it is keyed to the shaft Look on page 6 here : Kearney & Trecker Co. - Publication Reprints - Model 1H-2HL Knee Type Milling Macine - Parts Manual | VintageMachinery.org

There is a set screw holding the pulley to the shaft, I think.. As a side note, I also had to make a new bushing for the pulley side of the Westinghouse motor as some trunk monkey had the belts as tight as guitar strings ... Belt tension should be just tight enough to drive the unit.. You do yourself no favors by tightening belts too tight..... That bushing is not fun to make.. Hope this helps.. Cheers from Louisiana Ramsay 1

 

[MyLilMule]

From the photo's in the manual it looks like there are covers on both sides.
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2098/25820.pdf

I have the manual. And I have removed the doors on both sides. The problem is how to get to the bolts that hold the front of the motor to the motor plate. There's just not a lot of room to fit a wrench let alone my hands in there.

Here's the back, the bolts ate easy to get to.



Here's the motor from the front. Not so easy to get to. Terrible pictures, but it's the best one I have.

 

[MyLilMule]

Hello: I took my motor out years ago to clean and also to get to the pecker head to change to lower voltage... I had to take the pulley and fan off as I recall.... I think it is keyed to the shaft Look on page 6 here : Kearney & Trecker Co. - Publication Reprints - Model 1H-2HL Knee Type Milling Macine - Parts Manual | VintageMachinery.org

There is a set screw holding the pulley to the shaft, I think.. As a side note, I also had to make a new bushing for the pulley side of the Westinghouse motor as some trunk monkey had the belts as tight as guitar strings ... Belt tension should be just tight enough to drive the unit.. You do yourself no favors by tightening belts too tight..... That bushing is not fun to make.. Hope this helps.. Cheers from Louisiana Ramsay 1

I found the set screws on the fan, but I see nothing on the pulley. I tried pulling it off, but had no luck. Although I didn't want to put too much pressure on it. There's no opening on the pulley to put a gear puller on it.

Great tip on the belt tension. I will keep that in mind once it goes back together.

I think I am going to have to resort to doing whatever it takes to get those bolts out as-is. And then take the fan and pulley off after it's out. Should make re-install possible. Honestly, I can't see how I would get these bolts back in even if I managed to get the out in any case!

 

[Richard King]

On some hard to remove pulleys I would use a long hex bolt and long nut used on mill table clamp nuts to jack them off. I wonder if the the motor is held on with a bolt and nut under the plate? You may have to pry it up and slide in a 2 x 4 to hold it up. Or can you pull the motor and plate out together? I used to have to make or bend wrenches to fit in odd ball parts. You may want to ask a friend to come over and venture an opinion. Sometimes someone else may figure it out.

 

[ramsay1]

I found the set screws on the fan, but I see nothing on the pulley. I tried pulling it off, but had no luck. Although I didn't want to put too much pressure on it. There's no opening on the pulley to put a gear puller on it.

Great tip on the belt tension. I will keep that in mind once it goes back together.

I think I am going to have to resort to doing whatever it takes to get those bolts out as-is. And then take the fan and pulley off after it's out. Should make re-install possible. Honestly, I can't see how I would get these bolts back in even if I managed to get the out in any case!

Remove both set screws.. You can remove the expansion plug on the pulley to gain access to the end of the shaft.. I think my expansion plug was never put back in mine....You may want to put some penetrating oil in the shaft hole once you remove the plug.. Pulley and fan should come off without too much trouble.... I know I had mine off because I had the motor rotor out and changed the bushing on that end. Cheers; Ramsay 1

 

[MyLilMule]

On some hard to remove pulleys I would use a long hex bolt and long nut used on mill table clamp nuts to jack them off. I wonder if the the motor is held on with a bolt and nut under the plate? You may have to pry it up and slide in a 2 x 4 to hold it up. Or can you pull the motor and plate out together? I used to have to make or bend wrenches to fit in odd ball parts. You may want to ask a friend to come over and venture an opinion. Sometimes someone else may figure it out.

Yeah, there's no way to get anything under the plate. No head room.

 

[MyLilMule]

Remove both set screws.. You can remove the expansion plug on the pulley to gain access to the end of the shaft.. I think my expansion plug was never put back in mine....You may want to put some penetrating oil in the shaft hole once you remove the plug.. Pulley and fan should come off without too much trouble.... I know I had mine off because I had the motor rotor out and changed the bushing on that end. Cheers; Ramsay 1

I'm going to try again tomorrow to squeeze my hand under the fan and work a wrench back and forth. Horrible position to do this in. And I just realized that the expansion plug was there. It must be painted over. If I can't get the bolts out, I'll find an edge on the expansion plug and maybe use a gear puller on it. I'm going to be taking it off anyway.

My thought was, at a minimum, I will replace the motor bearings since I am going to have it out. I assume it has bearings, there are grease zerks fitted for each end.

 

[ramsay1]

I'm going to try again tomorrow to squeeze my hand under the fan and work a wrench back and forth. Horrible position to do this in. And I just realized that the expansion plug was there. It must be painted over. If I can't get the bolts out, I'll find an edge on the expansion plug and maybe use a gear puller on it. I'm going to be taking it off anyway.

My thought was, at a minimum, I will replace the motor bearings since I am going to have it out. I assume it has bearings, there are grease zerks fitted for each end.

Drill a hole in the expansion plug and put the point of a heel bar in it and pry it out... You can get a new one .. If you motor has grease fittings, most likely you have ball bearings.... Notice on the bearing housings you should have a grease fitting on top and a plug on the bottom.. Most likely, you wlll find that the windings of your motor are packed full of grease because most people do not know how to properly lubricate a ball bearing motor... First, take out the purge plug, usually under the bottom of the bearing.. Next, pump grease into the fitting until you see the same grease as in your grease gun come out of the purge plug... Next, run the motor for one minute to expel excess grease.. Wipe bottom hole off and install plug... DO NOT ADD MORE GREASE... Many motors have been ruined by grease in the windings causing temperature rise... Cheers; Ramsay 1

 

[MyLilMule]

That was not very much fun. But it's out. Thanks for all the advice. It'll help when I go to take it apart.

Yuk. Cleaning it won't be much fun either.

 

[texasgeartrain]

That is a very cool looking GE electric motor you have there. You might consider posting it to this thread, note post #20 looks like a precursor to yours:
Old Electric Motors

Might even post the process, from slime ball to pretty. . .

In fact I wouldn't mind seeing a thread on this machine !

I just picked up a much smaller 1/3hp GE, a little bit vintage with gits oilers and no doubt bushings instead of ball bearings. I wanted to up my shaft size from the current 1/2" to accommodate the weight a larger OD pulley. The current motor newer, and small bearings, inside a Gorton grinder.

The GE has a 5/8" shaft, and I thought the style of motor would be a good fit for the machine:



The thread for anyone interested:
Gorton 375-2 Tool Cutter Grinder

 

[ramsay1]

That was not very much fun. But it's out. Thanks for all the advice. It'll help when I go to take it apart.

Yuk. Cleaning it won't be much fun either.

View attachment 348576View attachment 348577

That looks like a ball bearing motor with grease zerks..... When you get it apart, clean the windings with electric motor cleaner.. sprayon use to sell a good one.. It's always a good idea to put some glyptol on the windings when you get it clean....Post some pics of the stator before you clean it... I bet you have grease packed in the windings... Remember the greasing procedure....Cheers; Ramsay 1

 

[ramsay1]

2hl Westinghouse motor

This is my Westinghouse... It has a ring oiler on each bearing journal and must be kept full of turbine oil.My 2h has a 5hp ball bearing motor with grease zerks much the same as your motor.. Cheers Ramsay 1

 

[ncjeeper]

Glad you finally got it out Greg.

 

[MyLilMule]

That is a very cool looking GE electric motor you have there. You might consider posting it to this thread, note post #20 looks like a precursor to yours:
Old Electric Motors

In fact I wouldn't mind seeing a thread on this machine !

This'll be going on the yoootooobs for sure. Not sure I have the time to also create a thread, too.

My Lil' Mule - YouTube

 

[ramsay1]

This'll be going on the yoootooobs for sure. Not sure I have the time to also create a thread, too.

My Lil' Mule - YouTube

Will watch for it... Curious to see how much old stiff grease is packed into the windings... You might get lucky... Cheers from Louisiana; Ramsay 1

 

[Ohio Mike]

Very cool old motor. I have an old Westinghouse that has oil bearings on the Royersford 21" camel back drill which I'm sure dates to WW2.

I'd like to see a good picture of the motor tag if can.

 

[MyLilMule]

Very cool old motor. I have an old Westinghouse that has oil bearings on the Royersford 21" camel back drill which I'm sure dates to WW2.

I'd like to see a good picture of the motor tag if can.

Any way to tell year of manufacture? The mill is 1942, I would imagine if this is the original, it would likely by 1941 or earlier.

 

[Ohio Mike]

I believe FU would date the motor to June 1940.