Is a 5C collet Chuck what I need?

[gustafson]

Hardinge/Sjogren don't use a hammer wheel, it's a planetary gear reduced setup. JacobsFlex rubber collet chucks use the hammer setup.

That's interesting they look so similar

 

[eKretz]

That's interesting they look so similar

They look vaguely similar, but that's about all that's similar. I've used both in shops. Bought a Hardinge for myself. The Rubber-Flex (I flubbed the name earlier) has the same issue as the ER collets also - a plug is needed at the other end of the collet if you want to grip something short. If the plug isn't used, you get much the same effect as a bellmouthed set of chuck jaws.

 

[gustafson]

That is why my Rubber Flex collet setup for the EE has been in the little metal cabinet for misc lathe stuff I will never use for 25 years

 

[GregSY]

So the Sjogren features list shows that they work with a variety of collets. Does that mean they can vend you a chuck that will work with the collet of your choice, or that one chuck will work with any of them?

Handwheel actuation for easy open and close

• Utilizes standard 2J, 5C, 3J and 22J collets
• Versatile solutions for milling, grinding, and turning
• For stationary and turning operations
• Original sjogre (sho-grün) system
• 5C handwheel diameter = 9.000’’
• J Style handwheel = 10.000’’
• 7.000’’handwheels available upon request
• D-11 Mounts available upon request

 

[eKretz]

So the Sjogren features list shows that they work with a variety of collets. Does that mean they can vend you a chuck that will work with the collet of your choice, or that one chuck will work with any of them?

Handwheel actuation for easy open and close

• Utilizes standard 2J, 5C, 3J and 22J collets
• Versatile solutions for milling, grinding, and turning
• For stationary and turning operations
• Original sjogre (sho-grün) system
• 5C handwheel diameter = 9.000’’
• J Style handwheel = 10.000’’
• 7.000’’handwheels available upon request
• D-11 Mounts available upon request

You have to pick which one you want to buy. The noses aren't made to be interchangeable unless you'd like to disassemble the entire collet chuck - which is not an easy task. Pretty sure the pins (gear studs) are interference fit. The J collet series go quite a bit larger than 5C. I think 2J max is 1⅜" and 3J is max 1¾".

 

[GregSY]

Looks like the 5C collets are available in cheap and expensive makes, but the 2J is only expensive make.

 

[wesg]

Only lathe I used a Sjogren/Hardinge type on didn't have enough drag on the spindle to hold it in place while you opened and closed it. Had to change to a slower speed, or yank on the wheel to use it.

My Graziano 12S came with a Royal lever closer. Problem with it, the morse spindle adapter is too short to easily reach with normal turning tools. And it's an extended adapter. A 'D' mount and longer draw tube are on my list for 'someday'. The other is to cut a hole thru the rear cover so the bracket doesn't need to be removed to open it. I regularly need it open for setting up rifle barrels.

Hence the chuck key activated Bison 5c ...

I made a speeder handle for cranking the collet in/out.

 

[eKretz]

Only lathe I used a Sjogren/Hardinge type on didn't have enough drag on the spindle to hold it in place while you opened and closed it. Had to change to a slower speed, or yank on the wheel to use it.

My Graziano 12S came with a Royal lever closer. Problem with it, the morse spindle adapter is too short to easily reach with normal turning tools. And it's an extended adapter. A 'D' mount and longer draw tube are on my list for 'someday'. The other is to cut a hole thru the rear cover so the bracket doesn't need to be removed to open it. I regularly need it open for setting up rifle barrels.

Hence the chuck key activated Bison 5c ...

I made a speeder handle for cranking the collet in/out.

That is true. I usually just switch to a lower gear (spindle off) if I need to use a LOT of clamping power. For my lathe that's a single flip of one lever, so pretty easy. If I'm doing a job that doesn't require max clamping power I just hold the foot brake (also convenient, not all machines have that) and close/open the collet that way. Doesn't really take much twist on the Hardinge/Sjogren handwheel to hold pretty tightly with the gear reduction.

If I was running larger production type runs I'd probably try to set up a lever or air closer too. For the kind of stuff I do it's rare to make more than 10 items, so doesn't bother me a bit.

 

[sfriedberg]

The J collet series go quite a bit larger than 5C. I think 2J max is 1⅜" and 3J is max 1¾".

Ohhh, yes! I have a 22J Sjogren. Collet capacity max is 2.25". Every now and then I see a 35J collet on eBay. Those are good up to 3.5".

 

[GregSY]

I'd like capacity but in truth anything much over 1/2" fits fine in the 6 jaw.

Well, it's been over 2 days and no new-in-box chucks have popped up on Ebay for cheap. I went ahead and used the 6 jaw / collet chuck combination and made some rods. These are .093" SS, 8" long with the threaded end at 2-56. I have to use a magnifying glass to see the threads, but they're there. I made a 'special' die holder and the tailstock to keep it straight.

These are 'frog rods' used in the Bally 'Scared Stiff' pinball machine....they sit in a hole then pop up about 6" when you hit the target. They see a fair amount of force and tend to break loose over time. the threaded rod threads into a 'set screw' that is then threaded into the frog's belly.

 

[UptownSport]

ER's are fine for some stuff, but if you need to grip on a small section that doesn't pass through the collet, they don't work. With a 5C you can grip on 1/8" if you need to.

Place another piece of stock at rear of collet, it will function precisely the same with what you're holding as a 5C

 

[henrya]

I have one of these adapters to fit in the spindle nose. Super accurate and relatively inexpensive. You will need to make a drawbar and handwheel, which is not that hard.

COLLET ADAPTERS

 

[steve-l]

There are so many ways to do this and they all work well, but in the end, the best way is a small lathe for small parts. I bought a SB 10k new from SB in 1981. I bought it loaded. I have all the accessories. I also have a 13x40 and a 18x54 lathes and they too are fully loaded. I can do small parts on all these lathes. I have 3C, 5C, Jacobs 900 series collets and chucks for all, but the go to machine is the 10k. It is easier to use and faster for small parts.

 

[GregSY]

I'd like a high quality small lathe but ....I gotta stop buying more and more tools. Floor space is already at a premium.

 

[Gordon Heaton]

Place another piece of stock at rear of collet, it will function precisely the same with what you're holding as a 5C

It will, but its one more thing to make or find, and its a royal pain in the butt to get it there and keep it there especially if changing parts a lot. When I end up gripping short its usually on a step from a larger piece so 'same size' stock probably isn't real handy nearby.

 

[henrya]

I have a fluted handwheel on my drawbar and holes in it for a bar for times I need lots of tightening. Most smaller delicate parts can be tightened by hand, and that is the bulk of collet work for me. If I was going to go into production, I’d buy a lever closer. Funny/not funny that I can tighten parts much better with my right hand but the handwheel is on the left. Grrrr.

I also especially like that collets don’t really damage or mark parts, even soft materials like aluminum.

 

[cyanidekid]

Make a long draw tube like you’d use with typical 5c spindle adapter but use it with the collet block held in your chuck. A little harder to reach on a lathe your size but still manageable.

if you are going to go to that effort, why not just swap out for a proper collet setup? for a one off, put the hex collet block in the 6 jaw rear nut and all. for more, take off the chuck and setup for collets...??? after all it is a camlock so 30 seconds or so..

 

[gustafson]

if you are going to go to that effort, why not just swap out for a proper collet setup? for a one off, put the hex collet block in the 6 jaw rear nut and all. for more, take off the chuck and setup for collets...??? after all it is a camlock so 30 seconds or so..

For me it is not the time per se, but the weight in handling a larger chuck. since unlike a standard 5C rig, an extended collet block nut would not require bearing on the spindle other than for rough concentricity, it would not be that much work. But yeah, I don't think I would bother. Setting the collet block against the face of the jaws with a scale or parallel would be close enough for anything that is close enough to use a collet block in the jaws

 

[Nmbmxer]

if you are going to go to that effort, why not just swap out for a proper collet setup? for a one off, put the hex collet block in the 6 jaw rear nut and all. for more, take off the chuck and setup for collets...??? after all it is a camlock so 30 seconds or so..

My Whacheon has an A series spindle nose which makes it a pain to change a 12” chuck on. And then find an A series collet chuck that isn’t designed for a power drawbar. Some of the common ones (hardinge) have to be disassembled to get to the mounting bolts.

Otherwise you have to get / make an A series backplate and find a key operated chuck that mounts without interfering with the nose bolts.

 

[michiganbuck]

Having a lathe one can easily turn their own collet holder with it having a sizable through-hole. and a line-up mark to the same chuck jaw and on the line. This will run much truer than any catalog holder...and it can be tickled at a future time when the non-independent cuck gets a little more off.

Agree if your non-independent chuck runs close enough then a catalog collet holder is OK.
The best collets run .0002, and with them, .0005 to .001 can be a hassle because of other issues.
Making your own or a catalog version, having an Adjust True might be the answer if needing tenths.