Need help with my new 10EE

[daryl bane]

I did the front in the primary color, but the back in a a more common spray can paint color. I knew there was a very good reason for this but I can't remember now.

 

[grounding]

I did the front in the primary color, but the back in a a more common spray can paint color. I knew there was a very good reason for this but I can't remember now. View attachment 384512View attachment 384513

Thanks Daryl, I'm interested in where/how you made the transition between the 2 colors, at the bottom/sides of the apron. Any chance you have pictures of that?

Amazing paint job man! You are 10 times the painter I am.

 

[daryl bane]

Unfortunately, I don't have pics of the transition, but I painted the front primary color around the corners so that if viewed from any angle, you could not see the transition. I know guys are reading this and rolling eyes, but yeah, I'm kinda sick. . Btw, the worm/gear and half nuts( and more) all came off of an unbelievably pristine round dial that was found in a dumpster. I scraped in the half nuts as they were a tight fit. You can probably see the scrape marks where I made sure the top was flat to where it is bolted to the top of the apron.

 

[grounding]

Guys, what should these bushings measure? Need to know if I need to turn new ones.

 

[texasgeartrain]

Guys, what should these bushings measure? Need to know if I need to turn new ones.

On the 10ee these are not holding the worm gear directly, as they may on some larger lathes. In essence, Its sort of guiding the feed rod. However the feed rod is holding up the worm gear, which in turn mates with worm wheel.

So you'd like a decent fit to feed rod (the entire length of which may vary slightly). I might aim for a .002" to .003" oil clearance on that bushing to feed rod, checking how it feels the entire length of feed rod.

A little more clearance than that may be ok, but if bushing felt overly sloppy on feed rod, I'd re-bush it. In part because you want good full contact of worm gear to worm wheel. If overly sloppy, worm gear might be forced downward away from worm wheel slightly.

Another fyi, if taper pins hold that in, you may lose a little oil clearance once they are hammered in, so maybe .003" to .004" clearance prior to taper pins.

 

[grounding]

Thank you sir.

 

[grounding]

On the 10ee these are not holding the worm gear directly, as they may on some larger lathes. In essence, Its sort of guiding the feed rod. However the feed rod is holding up the worm gear, which in turn mates with worm wheel.

So you'd like a decent fit to feed rod (the entire length of which may vary slightly). I might aim for a .002" to .003" oil clearance on that bushing to feed rod, checking how it feels the entire length of feed rod.

A little more clearance than that may be ok, but if bushing felt overly sloppy on feed rod, I'd re-bush it. In part because you want good full contact of worm gear to worm wheel. If overly sloppy, worm gear might be forced downward away from worm wheel slightly.

Another fyi, if taper pins hold that in, you may lose a little oil clearance once they are hammered in, so maybe .003" to .004" clearance prior to taper pins.

Feed rod is .750, so as you can see, these are really warn. I’ll plan to rebush to .754

 

[Cal Haines]

Based on the way it works, I would expect the bushing to wear at the bottom, making it egg shaped. Is it out of round?

 

[CarbideTip]

I would be careful here. If the bed and saddle are worn the apron will be lower, so making bushes might cause the carriage to bind.
If you've had a regrind and turcite under the saddle to bring it back up to the original position, yes, make new bushes with a nice running fit.

Incidentally on CVA's the feed rod diameter was increased from 3/4" to 13/16" on later (Mk1a series 3) machines.
Do long bed 10EEs have larger feed rods?

 

[grounding]

Based on the way it works, I would expect the bushing to wear at the bottom, making it egg shaped. Is it out of round?

A little, but not much

 

[grounding]

I would be careful here. If the bed and saddle are worn the apron will be lower, so making bushes might cause the carriage to bind.
If you've had a regrind and turcite under the saddle to bring it back up to the original position, yes, make new bushes with a nice running fit.

Incidentally on CVA's the feed rod diameter was increased from 3/4" to 13/16" on later (Mk1a series 3) machines.
Do long bed 10EEs have larger feed rods?

That makes sense too. I did not have it reground. Maybe I should just leave em?

 

[texasgeartrain]

You can run a check and make a determination.

To check would be the same process if you were rebuilding with grinding and scraping to get it all back aligned.

Lay carriage on bed. Mount apron housing to carriage with both bushings in and feed rod shoved through. Then connect feed rod to qcgb, and install leadscrew end bearing.

With both ends of feed rod installed, check the gap around the feed rod to both bushings in apron. If we presume carriage ways are wore, feed rod might touch top of bushing. Roll the feed rod 360 as well.

Now if you want to play around like you might be rebuilding with turcite or such under carriage, get 6 sets of feeler blades. Begin sticking them between carriage and bed ways, on all 4 corners. Gradually lifting carriage until feed rod is dead center of the bushings, and carriage level. The feeler blades giving an idea how thick turcite should be.

While you'd love perfect, that .750" feed rod will flex also. Mount it by itself, or somewhere that's holding both ends, and press a little with your hand, it will move. Misalignment will be more noticeable or potentially bindy at either end where its directly fixed to qcgb or end bearing.

 

[daryl bane]

Actually the bush in the pic looks to be retrofitted with a bronze insert, and not original( he says) . The cast iron ones seemed to be correct sans the insert for a round dial, and my 59 used solid bronze one piece bushings. When doing mine, I used the cast iron ones and fitted top hat bushes counterbored so I could get the sandwich clearances of the thrust bearings/worm gear just right.

 

[grounding]

Are you sure the brass bushings are not original?

 

[texasgeartrain]

Are you sure the brass bushings are not original?

Time has taught me nothing in life is absolutely certain , but I'm pretty sure many were one piece originally, though maybe not the case 100% across the board.

Pretty sure I have two sets of 10ee bushings, but not at my current location, I'll have to check.

My Series 61 was a single piece. And in this case worm gear itself rides on the bushings. Wore out, so I re-bored the ID and added my own bushings, then bored ID to match worm gear:

 

[daryl bane]

When I pulled the 59 WIAD apart, the solid bronze bushes were beyond egg shaped, maybe ostrich egg. The internal key on the worm looked like a knife...really, it was worn that bad. I had a pristine (as mentioned earlier) round dial apron (thankfully) and those bushes were solid cast iron and not too bad, so they made a good candidate to have common "off the shelf" top hat bronze bushes retrofitted. I bet being wartime and that bronze was probably akin to gold had something do with that. It's very possible that the factory retrofitted some of the WW2 stuff, you just never know.

 

[grounding]

Hey guys I started disassembly of the DC motor and mine seems different from Grants, at least the back gear portion.

Any ideas on how to get this bearing off?

 

[daryl bane]

I would try to heat the assy. with a blow dryer (propane torch on the bearing if you're going to replace it) and then pound /slam the small end on a solid piece of wood. Try this first before resorting to more aggressive=damaging methods. Maybe alittle Kroil type stuff between the bearing and gear shaft wouldn't hurt.

 

[grounding]

I would try to heat the assy. with a blow dryer (propane torch on the bearing if you're going to replace it) and then pound /slam the small end on a solid piece of wood. Try this first before resorting to more aggressive=damaging methods. Maybe alittle Kroil type stuff between the bearing and gear shaft wouldn't hurt.

Thanks Daryl. Was hoping there was another method besides heat, but it is what it is.

 

[IceCzar]

then there is the other way to get the temperature differential
thinking gear down in a bucket (w\ a silicone seal) fill with water and freeze the internal passage
then heat the bearing.

I did something similar last week. But the outer race heated faster expanded and I didn't get the bearing off as a unit but one race after the other.