DN Solutions vs Leadwell vs Takisawa vs DMG Mori

[NAST555]

Ok, I viewed a Victor V-26 today and got the quote. A bit higher price than the doosan but the doosan rep has still not shown me a machine yet.
The V26 is a solid machine. weighs in at over 6000kg. The doosan is apparently in the just over 3000 kg range.
I am impressed with the Victor. I am close to pulling the trigger, going to give the doosan rep a day or two more to come to the party.

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

It's the difference between a fixture that you would make to use in your shop and a fixture that you would sell as a product, if that makes sense.

In the home market, most Takisawa lathes are used with autoloaders or robotics and frequently churn out a part or family of parts their entire lives. The Japanese auto industry is big on Takisawa.

 

[BROTHERFRANK]

Japan. I have a ts-4000ys. It makes parts. But, for example, I have had to slow the turret rotation down by a factor of four to have it actually index reliably without throwing an error, and even with that, I have to balance the tools around the turret.

Sorry to hear you are having issues. It is surprising to me as we have installed quite a few here and I have never heard of the turret needing to be slowed down. Balancing the turret is a good practice on any machine I think. there is a big weight difference between some of the various adapters. I mentioned this to the local Cleveland team and I hope they can get something figured out for your situation. Overall, shops that I am familiar with are very impressed with the power, rigidity, accuracy and reliability of the TS machines.
A 2-axis Takisawa is about as reliable as you can get. Many clients reporting 20 years use without hardly a hiccup. There are two different lines though, the Takisawa from Japan, and the Taiwan Takisawas.

 

[Comatose]

It is surprising to me as we have installed quite a few here and I have never heard of the turret needing to be slowed down. Balancing the turret is a good practice on any machine I think.

I mean, it was Takisawa's suggested fix, and it did get me running, so I'd have to guess they've heard of it before. Without doing so it simply fails to successfully index. *shrug*

 

[NAST555]

Viewed a GT 2100 today. It is apparently the same just with older cosmetics as the DNT 2100 B, which I am after, and the B has the bigger bore.
Tomorrow is deadline day for my brain and I am currently leaning towards the DNT. It has a smaller footprint than the Victor, which is not too much of an issue for me but it does make life easier, and weighs in at 3800 KG. The company that I viewed it at have ordered 3 mills and 5 more lathes for a purely Doosan section of their shop. They already have a few and are going to fill this side up. They have swiss style and even run old school cam auto's on some of their parts. Big setup that I couldn't fully view for secrecy sake.

 

[Clive603]

I mean, it was Takisawa's suggested fix, and it did get me running, so I'd have to guess they've heard of it before. Without doing so it simply fails to successfully index. *shrug*

If you are making large quantities of the same part with auto loading or robots it's worth taking care to balance the turret well if it cuts the movement time by half. All those odd seconds and half seconds add up. Fewsie and jobbing work not so much. There are more profitable, easier, process things to work on when it comes to shaving time.
Sounds to me the standard setting simply pushes the performance envelope a bit and gets away with it if the turret is balanced. So slow down for an unbalanced turret is a real fix. Horses for courses. The sort of little thing that often falls out of the documentation as it's revised for publication. Probably something like "Turret can be run at X if balanced, if not balanced run slower at Y to avoid indexing errors." went missing.

Clive

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

Viewed a GT 2100 today. It is apparently the same just with older cosmetics as the DNT 2100 B, which I am after, and the B has the bigger bore.
Tomorrow is deadline day for my brain and I am currently leaning towards the DNT. It has a smaller footprint than the Victor, which is not too much of an issue for me but it does make life easier, and weighs in at 3800 KG. The company that I viewed it at have ordered 3 mills and 5 more lathes for a purely Doosan section of their shop. They already have a few and are going to fill this side up. They have swiss style and even run old school cam auto's on some of their parts. Big setup that I couldn't fully view for secrecy sake.

The Puma GT / DNT are great for heavy turning applications and tough materials. Large box ways, large diameter screws, and a "squat" design where the spindle is closer to the ways and more centrally located between them. I used to demo that machine taking .400" d.o.c. (diametrically) in 4340 hot rolled steel, then run a 2" dia insert drill. Excellent choice.

 

[hanermo]

I doubt you can go wrong with puma.
Or takisawa. Or doosan. Or Haas.
(Or maybe Mori. Mori has the problem of insane parts costs, and insane sales process.Lathes are best there is).

 

[Garwood]

Or Haas.

Haas lathes seem a bit out of place in this thread.

 

[SeymourDumore]

Haas lathes seem a bit out of place in this thread.

As an owner of quite of few Haas machines ( 2 pathes and 4 mills ), I must agree that whatever they offer for turning nowadays suck.
May be accurate enough for 90+ % of work out there, but hell! They are crude and either poorly thought out or well thought out, poorly executed designs.
As much as I love the two I have, and as much as I've debated over getting one last year, not likely to buy one from what they're selling now.

 

[NAST555]

Placed the order for it last night and just came from the shop to figure out what the best place to put it is. I figure 5M x 2.5M is a decent space for it with plenty of space behind the spindle (my charmilles wire EDM would be in that direction and pretty far away) for bar work. I am going to disconnect my KIA and run it from that cable.
It already has a 40A breaker in the box for it.
Where I have decided is right where the air line is runing for two of my machining centres. I might consider putting a hose at the machine with a regulator (I run a screw compressor set to 8.5 Bar and set down to about 6 for the machines and air guns) but it leaves the temptation for an operator to blow off the machine which is a no no for me. Would hope to use it to blow out finished parts.

 

[NAST555]

Haas lathes seem a bit out of place in this thread.

I didn't even look at Haas for 2 reasons. A toolroom style lathe and a 700mm X travel machining centre. When I looked for either one the Takang with Fagor 8055 that I bought was loads more rigid and feels like a real machine compared to the TL range... at a similar price.
On the mill I bought a Akira Seiki with Mitsubishi M64. It blows a VF2 out of the water if you factor price and optional extras that you would need to add to get to the standard of the Akira... And the VF2 with extras at a higher price.

I know that they have their place and know of a few shops that love them, I put that down to good advertising, but in the South African market (I am sure they go for decent price in the USA) they are overpriced for what you get in my opinion.

 

[cgrim3]

How about Hwacheon? I would definitely try looking at them before pulling the trigger on something.

 

[NAST555]

How about Hwacheon? I would definitely try looking at them before pulling the trigger on something.

They don't really have a following over here from what I have seen.
To be honest I had to google them and I see there is a dealership in the cape... That I have never heard of.

 

[gregormarwick]

Ok, I viewed a Victor V-26 today and got the quote. A bit higher price than the doosan but the doosan rep has still not shown me a machine yet.
The V26 is a solid machine. weighs in at over 6000kg. The doosan is apparently in the just over 3000 kg range.
I am impressed with the Victor. I am close to pulling the trigger, going to give the doosan rep a day or two more to come to the party.

Is that the S26 or the A26?

 

[NAST555]

Is that the S26 or the A26?

It was a S26. The A26 looks like a larger machine.

 

[gregormarwick]

It was a S26. The A26 looks like a larger machine.

A26 is integrated motor spindle vs gearbox and belt drive on the S26 and has a different turret. I think they are pretty much the same otherwise.

 

[NAST555]

Got here yesterday but today was the first day that I could play a bit. Control is loads different to what I am used to but I can navigate the fanuc side of it a bit.

I like that the programs can be put into sub folders, it will help a lot for a jobbing shop like us. Customer folder with programs in it. The screen capture feature is also a nice addition. I need to get used to the keyboard to type programs in at the control, I am used to a normal O or Oi fanuc keypad.
I had to bypass the door lock, it turns off even the chip conveyor when the door is open.
So far looks good. I want to set up a part in the morning that calls for a 25mm iscar insert drill.

 

[Kingbob]

I'm am mazak man my self but boy that's a pretty lathe! Looks like a load of fun you are giving me the new machine itch. Congrats!

 

[Triaged]

...
I had to bypass the door lock, it turns off even the chip conveyor when the door is open.

Why would you want the chip conveyor on with the door open?