I keep hearing that this winter will be bad for manufacturing in Europe.

[ghost of christmas past]

I once saw a China video where one part showed a Chinese guy sleeping on the sidewalk with a new-looking pair of shoes next to him. The narration said in very few countries could such a man not have his shoes stolen, but such a theft would not be common in China.
My thought on this was likely this is/was a cop setup and a camera nearby would put a shoe thief in a jail work camp for a month.

Video is wrong. Agreed no one is going to steal shoes from a beggar but that's not because theft is uncommon, it's because no one wants to get near beggars. Everybody figures it's a trick, the instant you reach for the shoes the beggar will grab your pants and start wailing and crying.

If those were new Nike's they'd be gone in a heartbeat, there's lots of theft all over china, you better not leave your purse unattended or it will be gone the instant you look away and the cops will say, "Why didn't you watch your stuff ?" and maybe take a report but it's not their problem.

Violent crime is a different story, that is very uncommon. Muggings, armed robbery, that kind of thing is now rare. In the past I guess it wasn't but nowadays, the place is very safe in that respect. No idea why but the police are not vicious in any way, they put up with behavior that would have a perp shot twelve times in the US. It's rare to come across a china cop who is an asshole, all the ones I've dealt with have been down to earth and some of them pretty funny. About the only violence you'll see is some girl beating up her boyfriend.

 

[Milland]

So you prefer killing people and blowing stuff up instead of improving life. Gottit.

So you're ignoring the massive deaths, kidnappings, and destruction of civilian property that's a couple orders of magnitude greater than what the USA has done that's occurring due to Russian actions. Purposely, which the USA does NOT make a habit of.

Got it...

 

[Trueturning]

If your gonna raise the retirement age 'ya might want to wear a cheap Timex doing TV interviews. Them French have a history of not liking to eat cake.
Does China have an equivalent of the CIA or KGB that's been known to stir things up?

The issue of the pensions does affect the economy and wellbeing of manufacturing. That ties in well to the topic.

I thought it was funny that some person of influence would well be noticed wearing an expensive watch. In the case of a cheaper Timex Being worn for just the occasion it could be much worse if the citizens noticed the new prop when the Rolex. (or some other highly expensive ones)

Using the process they did was high handed. Authoritarian move? Why not make the retirement age 661/2 while they are on a roll?

 

[ghost of christmas past]

So you're ignoring the massive deaths, kidnappings, and destruction of civilian property that's a couple orders of magnitude greater than what the USA has done that's occurring due to Russian actions. Purposely, which the USA does NOT make a habit of.

When the rooskies get up to two million people killed and as many bombs dropped as the entirety of world war ii plus the whole country defoliated, let me know.

Just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts.

btw, the US does make a habit of those things, they just don't report on it because the news sources are "embedded", aka boot-licking toadies.

 

[Milland]

When the rooskies get up to two million people killed and as many bombs dropped as the entirety of world war ii plus the whole country defoliated, let me know.

Just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts.

When you care about a country invading another let me know.

 

[Trueturning]

Video is wrong. Agreed no one is going to steal shoes from a beggar but that's not because theft is uncommon, it's because no one wants to get near beggars. Everybody figures it's a trick, the instant you reach for the shoes the beggar will grab your pants and start wailing and crying.

If those were new Nike's they'd be gone in a heartbeat, there's lots of theft all over china, you better not leave your purse unattended or it will be gone the instant you look away and the cops will say, "Why didn't you watch your stuff ?" and maybe take a report but it's not their problem.

Violent crime is a different story, that is very uncommon. Muggings, armed robbery, that kind of thing is now rare. In the past I guess it wasn't but nowadays, the place is very safe in that respect. No idea why but the police are not vicious in any way, they put up with behavior that would have a perp shot twelve times in the US. It's rare to come across a china cop who is an asshole, all the ones I've dealt with have been down to earth and some of them pretty funny. About the only violence you'll see is some girl beating up her boyfriend.

“About the only violence you'll see is some girl beating up her boyfriend.”

Funny one I am surprised anyone would bother calling police in that case short of a murder. Increased Crime greases the whole Justice system here it seems.

They’re a lot of persons working in connection with it. Important work sure and if crime dropped as a high percentage those working in it would feel it I suppose.

 

[Scottl]

So you're ignoring the massive deaths, kidnappings, and destruction of civilian property that's a couple orders of magnitude greater than what the USA has done that's occurring due to Russian actions. Purposely, which the USA does NOT make a habit of.

Got it...

Not necessarily kidnappings but sometime take a look at photos of European cities bombed by USA and allies. Plenty of civilian deaths in addition to massive destruction of civilian property.

War is hell, the world is not black and white, and history is written by the victors.

 

[Milland]

Not necessarily kidnappings but sometime take a look at photos of European cities bombed by USA and allies. Plenty of civilian deaths in addition to massive destruction of civilian property.

WW2. Not today, and not relevant to this conversation.

War is hell, the world is not black and white, and history is written by the victors.

I hope this history will be written accurately, and not through the Russian filter.

 

[standardparts]

The issue of the pensions does affect the economy and wellbeing of manufacturing. That ties in well to the topic.

I thought it was funny that some person of influence would well be noticed wearing an expensive watch. In the case of a cheaper Timex Being worn for just the occasion it could be much worse if the citizens noticed the new prop when the Rolex. (or some other highly expensive ones)

Using the process they did was high handed. Authoritarian move? Why not make the retirement age 661/2 while they are on a roll?

I suspect that there are many big shots that have someone on staff, a handler, who is charged with eyeballing for stains on clothing, making sure there is no cocktail in hand, and no hand on someone's ass...no flashy jewelry when pleading austerity...that sort of thing.
Maybe there are times that the handler decides the boss needs a wakeup call and 'does not notice' something that will be embarrassing. Of course maybe the 'handler' is just following orders.
In politics...and business.....it's all about survival by any means. One mistake can mean game over.

 

[standardparts]

Not necessarily kidnappings but sometime take a look at photos of European cities bombed by USA and allies. Plenty of civilian deaths in addition to massive destruction of civilian property.

War is hell, the world is not black and white, and history is written by the victors.

"history is written by the victors." Pretty much.

 

[ghost of christmas past]

Funny one I am surprised anyone would bother calling police in that case short of a murder. Increased Crime greases the whole Justice system here it seems.

In general, they don't. People are a lot more self-reliant in China. Police in general do criminal stuff or arguments where they get called, for stuff like a theft it's sort of "why were you so careless ?" but sometimes may want to get a police report for insurance or you lost the passport and need some kind of i.d.

Mostly you go there to ask to see the video so maybe it was the neighbor that hit your fender or you can see the license plate, something like that. They don't micromanage life. I see stuff every day that has me in stitches, honest there's a lot of people US cops would shoot if they behaved like here. Like, the first time you pass a cop car on the shoulder and he is in the left lane, has his lights going, I just hid under the dash ... but they don't much care.

Not today, and not relevant to this conversation.

Yes, well there was Vietnam and South America and Kosovo and Syria and Iraq and Afghanistan and many more, plenty of apartment buildings bombed by US jets, plenty of hospitals attacked by puff the magic gunship, plenty of people going about their daily lives killed by drones, plenty of places that weren't even on the enemies list bombed because they happened to be next door. And torture, should not forget torture, during John McCain's time that was evil and despicable but later on it was fine and dandy. One could go into this in detail but too much work, you'll pretend that's "not relevant" anyway.

Basically you are saying the US can do whatever it wants and that's fine but if Russia does anything even resembling what the US does, they are the tools of the Devil and need to be drawn and quartered.

I call that hypocrisy, you call it 'patriotism' but it's pretty obviously self-righteous and dishonest.

If you think the US should be the world's policeman and spend all our tax money and resources doing that instead of taking care of our own country, fine, that's your opinion. I just find this self-righteous stuff two-faced and disgusting.

 

[Freedommachine]

So you're ignoring the massive deaths, kidnappings, and destruction of civilian property that's a couple orders of magnitude greater than what the USA has done that's occurring due to Russian actions. Purposely, which the USA does NOT make a habit of.

Got it...

How do you know that all of those instances are real? I am not claiming they are false... but are you 100% sure that everything you see is true?

In order to maintain support from it's citizens; a government needs moral justification to take military action. Crimes against humanity are the highest form of moral justification.

Is it physically possible for the Ukrainian government - who desperately needs western support in order to win - to stage false attacks, create false reports, and spread lies in order to generate propaganda that would convince people like you to support them and also loathe their enemy?

War is war. Regardless of who is the good guy and who is the bad guy. If they need American support and cannot have it without crimes against humanity... you WILL see crimes against humanity. I'm sure Russia is doing the exact same thing.

This is a very easy concept to understand. Any country in a war WILL lie to make their enemies look as horrible as possible. Hell, any 12 year old girl will do the same thing when she's trying to isolate a friend she has a grudge against, it's human nature.

For example:

"Milland abuses animals. I saw him kick a puppy, here is a picture"



Now, my media agencies; daytime talk shows; political pundits; politicians and social media influencers spend a week showing the picture, calling you hitler and calling for your arrest and execution. Absolutely everyone on my side believes you kicked a puppy. Some people on your team turn on you; even the ones who think it is fake cannot be 100% sure.

The power of Propaganda.

 

[Scottl]

WW2. Not today, and not relevant to this conversation.



I hope this history will be written accurately, and not through the Russian filter.

Accurately ALSO means not through the USA neocon filter and WW2 is absolutely still relevant. It was our last declared war and people including yourself constantly bring up Hitler as relevant to various modern events, even political elections.

 

[Scottl]

In general, they don't. People are a lot more self-reliant in China. Police in general do criminal stuff or arguments where they get called, for stuff like a theft it's sort of "why were you so careless ?" but sometimes may want to get a police report for insurance or you lost the passport and need some kind of i.d.

Mostly you go there to ask to see the video so maybe it was the neighbor that hit your fender or you can see the license plate, something like that. They don't micromanage life. I see stuff every day that has me in stitches, honest there's a lot of people US cops would shoot if they behaved like here. Like, the first time you pass a cop car on the shoulder and he is in the left lane, has his lights going, I just hid under the dash ... but they don't much care.


Yes, well there was Vietnam and South America and Kosovo and Syria and Iraq and Afghanistan and many more, plenty of apartment buildings bombed by US jets, plenty of hospitals attacked by puff the magic gunship, plenty of people going about their daily lives killed by drones, plenty of places that weren't even on the enemies list bombed because they happened to be next door. And torture, should not forget torture, during John McCain's time that was evil and despicable but later on it was fine and dandy. One could go into this in detail but too much work, you'll pretend that's "not relevant" anyway.

Basically you are saying the US can do whatever it wants and that's fine but if Russia does anything even resembling what the US does, they are the tools of the Devil and need to be drawn and quartered.

I call that hypocrisy, you call it 'patriotism' but it's pretty obviously self-righteous and dishonest.

If you think the US should be the world's policeman and spend all our tax money and resources doing that instead of taking care of our own country, fine, that's your opinion. I just find this self-righteous stuff two-faced and disgusting.

What you describe in China USED to be the norm in most of the USA as well. If cops caught us drinking in the park as teenagers they made us dump out the beers, place them in a trash can and move on. If they caught us parked in a lover's lane with a girl they either told us to move or sometimes even said they'd be back in an hour and we'd better be gone. There are many other such things. These days dozens of ordinary activities have been made crimes.
Police carried six shot revolvers and rarely shot anyone except armed felons who tried to fight it out. Prosecutors rarely pursued many more or less victimless crimes or at least only charged the minimum offense.

 

[Milland]

~~~~~Mod Delete - Personal Attack ~~~~~~

 

[Milland]

I can't help but notice the many posters who rail against the US military in this (and related) threads. Since there's limits to my time to rebut (and other reasons), I'm going to point out to the open-minded reader that caution should be used when reviewing content like that.

Both Russia and China (and other countries, for that matter) have propaganda agencies whose purpose is to sow dissent within target populations. Given the war in Ukraine, it should be no surprise that there's an increase in these activities, and one should use a few metric tons of salt when interpreting those posts.

The invasion of Ukraine by Russia is the most televised, reported on, and Intel collected war in history. We have satellites giving accurate, moment by moment tracking of fighters and vehicles, and by multiple countries and agencies. Those that say "Do you believe me, or your lying eyes" should be ignored, and verified news sources from around the world more trusted. Yes, it goes against the current mantra of "trust nobody", but who's been preaching that mantra? Those who want you to turn a blind eye to the cruelty and evil of the current RU and CN regimes.

 

[ghost of christmas past]

Both Russia and China (and other countries, for that matter) have propaganda agencies whose purpose is to sow dissent within target populations.

Nice try.

A few simple questions, matters of fact not "propaganda" :

How much money and lives did the US spend in Vietnam, and what did it accomplish ?

How much money and lives did the US spend in Iraq and what did it accomplish ?

How much money and lives did the US spend in Afghanistan and what did it accomplish ?

If you had an employee who mucked up 80% of what he touched, what would be the proper way to deal with that situation ?

No propaganda, serious question. If you think that continuing to pursue proven stupid failure methods is the best way to go, that's your right.

Personally, I try to have a more rational approach. None of my thinking involves "foreign propaganda".

One thing different is, I can look around and see what a country can do if it invests in itself rather than military adventures and trying to control the world. It's impressive.

If you would rather see the country go down the toilet following the examples of Greece, Rome, France, the UK, that's your privilege. However, I think it's stupid to continue doing the same thing time after time after time after time after time, but expecting things to "go better next time !"

Yeah right. And tomorrow maybe the sun will rise in the west, to the accompaniment of herds of flying pigs. With lipstick.

 

[Milland]

Nice try.

It's factual, so that makes it good enough. You?

 

[standardparts]

I can't help but notice the many posters who rail against the US military in this (and related) threads. Since there's limits to my time to rebut (and other reasons), I'm going to point out to the open-minded reader that caution should be used when reviewing content like that.

Both Russia and China (and other countries, for that matter) have propaganda agencies whose purpose is to sow dissent within target populations. Given the war in Ukraine, it should be no surprise that there's an increase in these activities, and one should use a few metric tons of salt when interpreting those posts.

The invasion of Ukraine by Russia is the most televised, reported on, and Intel collected war in history. We have satellites giving accurate, moment by moment tracking of fighters and vehicles, and by multiple countries and agencies. Those that say "Do you believe me, or your lying eyes" should be ignored, and verified news sources from around the world more trusted. Yes, it goes against the current mantra of "trust nobody", but who's been preaching that mantra? Those who want you to turn a blind eye to the cruelty and evil of the current RU and CN regimes.

"I can't help but notice the many posters who rail against the US military in this (and related) threads."

Really? Because some question the motivation or judgement of our current Administration you process that as "rail against the US military?

 

[Milland]

"I can't help but notice the many posters who rail against the US military in this (and related) threads."

Really? Because some question the motivation or judgement of our current Administration you process that as "rail against the US military?

I question the motivation of posters who seem to be supporting a viscous dictatorship. Sorry if that's not to your liking.