Mori NH5000 horizontal, B axis crash during pallet change, B and Z are not responding

[NTM]

We had a part in a fixture hanging too low and it crashed into the lift arm during a B axis move that preceded an attempted pallet change.

I knew this was a risk when I set this job up but we're only running it on the G54 side of the tombstone and it was running fine all week because there is room for a pallet change. There just isn't room for B axis rotation. Which this process doesn't need. It ran fine all week but yesterday the operator programed a pallet change and (for whatever reason) it decided it needed to spin the B axis as if it were homing it for the pallet change. I don't know why, I wasn't there. But the part collided with the lift arm and overloaded something in the B axis. It was the end of the day so I didn't mess with it.

Working on it today I would move X and Y but B and Z are dead. Programmed moves just sit there with the timer running.

No error codes, no alarms.

I set the machine to field adjust mode (cycle stop and toggle the key so the cycle stop light flashes) went into settings and typed 98 to engage the APC safety overrides and was able to manually unlock and re-lock the pallet but that's all the APC recovery love I could get from it.

I removed the offending part that caused the problem and I wanted to home the B axis and run a pallet change but it won't energize the B drive. The drive has double dashes, which probably means the machine isn't energizing it. Same with Z I think.

I'm pretty sure it's stuck wanting to complete a pallet change but it won't let me energize those two drives to do it.

No error codes, no alarms.

Anybody know what this thing wants? I'm pretty sure I didn't break anything, it just got overloaded and interrupted a pallet change but I don't know what to try next.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Orange Vise]

APC arm might not be in home position. That could explain why only X and Y move.

What do the signals/interlocks show when you get into the APC manual recovery screen? Arm should be either in full CW or full CCW, arm fully down, and pallet clamped.

 

[NTM]

APC arm might not be in home position. That could explain why only X and Y move.

What do the signals/interlocks show when you get into the APC manual recovery screen? Arm should be either in full CW or full CCW, arm fully down, and pallet clamped.

https://imgur.com/a/TCuHwFe

Yeah that's no bueno

https://imgur.com/a/RFwwz3D

The rotating B axis moved the damn pallet changer during the crunch.

Nothing wants to move.

I guess I'll call Mori in the morning.

$$$$$ sigh

The last time I had them out to clear an error message (on a GV503) they ended up re-loading the ladder and it ended up costing 10K to get the machine going again.

 

[Orange Vise]

went into settings and typed 98 to engage the APC safety overrides and was able to manually unlock and re-lock the pallet but that's all the APC recovery love I could get from it.

Might have to unlock the couplers, remove the tombstone with a crane/forklift (lifting it about 6" might be sufficient), raise the arm, and finally rotate it CW/CCW to get it back home. Then do it all in reverse.

Be very careful because with the 98-interlock-release, it will damage itself if done out of sequence.

The CW/CCW motion is usually activated with a soft key. It can be feathered so you can double check that you're rotating in the right direction, then hold it down to complete the motion.

P.S. One other thing to try is manually moving the APC arm with the power off or at least in the E-stop condition. Watch for hydraulic pressure at the accumulator to drop to zero. Maybe try this first. Only problem is, even if the arm is at home position physically, it might not flip the bit the ladder.

 

[dandrummerman21]

Is the APC controlled with a fanuc motor, or something else (non fanuc motor, hydraulic cylinder, etc)

I am wondering if the pallet changer needs to be homed?

If the APC is fanuc powered, there might be a powermate control behind the scenes. If you go where fanuc parameters are and go a few menus over, you might see PMM (power mate manager). If you do, are there any alarms on that side of things?

 

[Ox]

Not to be too elementary, but did you cycle the power at the case level to clear the amps?


-------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[NTM]

Might have to unlock the couplers, remove the tombstone with a crane/forklift (lifting it about 6" might be sufficient), raise the arm, and finally rotate it CW/CCW to get it back home. Then do it all in reverse.

Be very careful because with the 98-interlock-release, it will damage itself if done out of sequence.

The CW/CCW motion is usually activated with a soft key. It can be feathered so you can double check that you're rotating in the right direction, then hold it down to complete the motion.

P.S. One other thing to try is manually moving the APC arm with the power off or at least in the E-stop condition. Watch for hydraulic pressure at the accumulator to drop to zero. Maybe try this first. Only problem is, even if the arm is at home position physically, it might not flip the bit the ladder.

Even with 98 interlock release the APC didn't want to move. Probably because I still have the pallet locked and the arms down.

Getting the forklift in here to snatch this tombstone is practically impossible and the machine design won't allow for an overhead chain lift with the tombstone where it is. I really wish it would let me use the Z axis to move the tombstone out of harms way. I may need to get creative to try this.

I did try prying the pallet changer back to the home position and it moved pretty smooth and easy (I'm surprised). But, like you said, it must not have flipped the bit in the ladder because it still doesn't recognize it's at home.

 

[NTM]

Is the APC controlled with a fanuc motor, or something else (non fanuc motor, hydraulic cylinder, etc)

I am wondering if the pallet changer needs to be homed?

If the APC is fanuc powered, there might be a powermate control behind the scenes. If you go where fanuc parameters are and go a few menus over, you might see PMM (power mate manager). If you do, are there any alarms on that side of things?

Yeah I'm pretty sure the problem right now is the machine needs to see that the APC is at home.

I looked over at the PMM and there are three amps. I know that one is the ATC carousel and I suspect that one of them is the APC. No error codes.

 

[NTM]

Not to be too elementary, but did you cycle the power at the case level to clear the amps?


-------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Yeah I tried that

 

[NTM]

I learned that typing M31 into MDI will release the z-axis interlock. So I was able to jog the tombstone out of harm's way but the APC recovery tools still would not let me attempt to manual cycle of the pallet changer

I have the pallet changer arm at the home position but the system does not recognize it as such. And it won't let me use the recovery tools because, I think, the b-axis and z-axis are not in their home positions for that. And I don't know how to release the interlock on the b-axis. It's currently parked at about 35° which is no bueno.

 

[Ox]

Are you fighting servo or hydro actuators?
I have to think that at least some of your woes are hydro?

I have had to manually cycle hydro valves to get things to line up on our HMC (Cinci) to get things in a place that it would go from there. I think that would apply for both Pallet change as well as tool changer.


---------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[NTM]

Ok

Got it working

Field adjust mode (cycle stop and key back and forth so cycle stop button is flashing)

MDI ---> M31 (releases Z axis interlock)

Use Z axis and run the wonky tombstone towards head stock to get it out of the way

Settings ---> custom ---> 98 input, (overrides APC safeties)

Make sure the operator door is closed etc (lol)

Unlock pallet, lift pallet, move the pallet changer a little bit out and then back so it registers as home. Set it back down and lock it back up etc.

At this point it was fixed. I ran the B axis back to 0 in MDI and executed a normal pallet change. Everything is working normally. The machine has about 30,000 run hours on it now so it makes noises similar to me when I sit down or stand up (the pallet changer groans a bit and things don't sound 100% excellent) but that's "normal".

The challenge for me was understating the various interlocks and how to defeat them. One mistake I made was doing some of the debugging with the operator door open. I'd opened it because it was a good place to see if the pallet changer was at home. But leaving it open (I just forgot and it didn't give me an alarm to remind me) prevented the APC recovery tool from lifting or I would have had this sorted an hour ago.

Thank you everyone for your help.

 

[Ox]

My Cinci has a switch for door over-ride.
AFAIK it is OEM - for set-up porpoises I ass_u_me.

BUT, you LOL about making sure the door is closed, but if you try to run a pallet change on mine, it will crash into the door. Might not happen on a 500, but the 630 is a little more pregnant and needs a bit more hip room....


----------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox