Haas helping the Russians?

[Milling man]

did you pay for your education? when you were a teenager did you pay for yourself in paying hospitals? your parents did not use all the things that I listed above? I think your parents also have a privatized apartment. you can be a good miller but absolutely zero in other matters. your typical survivor mistake

When I was a teenager, my parents paid for insurance. Unexpected, right?
I don't really understand the subject of our argument. I'm not opposed to government-sponsored healthcare or education. I didn't write anywhere that I was against it.

What I am not so sure about though is whether he believes Putin's intention is to return to which system?
The Soviet or the Tsarists Russia?

Apparently, what this, ahem, man is turning Russia into is much closer to an absolute monarchy. I am not a fan of the USSR as much as possible, but at least he had a good idea in words - and that system did a lot of good for the majority of the population of the former USSR. I don't know what good Putin is offering now. Oh, stop, I know - let's take a shit in the room of a housemate - and we will rejoice.

 

[William Payne]

The issue I have with reading threads where people bring up socialized medicine and things like that is the USA guys because they have never had it and have been told their entire lives that anything like that is evil communist agenda really are talking out of their butts. Many of us live in countries that are not communist but have these tax payer funded things and while not perfect we wouldn't be without them. Many of you guys talk about how bad it is and make up things about it to make it look bad but have never lived in it and couldn't be more wrong about it. My mum early this year was diagnosed with lung cancer and she is just about finished her radiation and chemo and wasn't charged a cent. I know people who have had life threatening heart attacks and had to be emergency air lifted for emergency surgery who have died and been brought back and they are now healthy living people and once again never charged a cent.

It is not perfect, if its not life threatening you may have to wait. There are issues and problems with it and some of us like myself choose to have health insurance on top of it.

But some of you guys have been brain washed, communism and government funded healthcare and social services are not the same thing.

knowing that a medical emergency will not bankrupt me is a luxury I never want to be without.

 

[SeymourDumore]

The issue I have with reading threads where people bring up socialized medicine ...

Did we miss something?
The discussion recently turned to a member reveling in the glory of the former Soviet Union and despising everything that followed it.
I don't remember any particular comment about socialized medicine being bad ....

But some of you guys have been brain washed, communism and government funded healthcare and social services are not the same thing.

Rest assured, some of us do know the difference, perhaps much better than you even!

 

[William Payne]

Did we miss something?
The discussion recently turned to a member reveling in the glory of the former Soviet Union and despising everything that followed it.
I don't remember any particular comment about socialized medicine being bad ....



Rest assured, some of us do know the difference, perhaps much better than you even!

My bad all I saw was someone talking about socialized healthcare about to go down the "Its communist!" rabbit hole and I just had a sudden reaction to that.

 

[Speedie]

PBS was never any good at news but really good at targeted programming for their sponsors. Haas should play lawyer up and show them what happens when you spread libel and slander. I am sure Russia can get it dirty little hands on some Chinese machines but they are running out of time, money and public sentiment if they are used for war tools. The small growing shops must be suffering severely there

 

[Trboatworks]

as to "grey area" no, there is no grey area. absolutely none.

Truer words were never spoken.

 

[TaperPin]

The US oil companies, heavy equipment, medical, and manufacturers in all sectors have supplied goods and services to the scum of the earth for as long as I’ve been alive. Sanctions just means you sell to another country once the informal gray market develops and the plausible deniability allows most companies to look the other way and act innocent. If anyone I’ve ever worked for had an opportunity to sell $10M of over priced equipment to a fellow with a funny Russian accent and have them legally shipped to a bordering country, which is a common loophole with any sanctions, all but one of them would jump at the chance. in few situations do sanctions automatically require tracking the product after it’s sold legally.

The list of products that are not on the sanctions list makes my head spin - why the f are we still buying anything from Russia!? Lol

 

[???]

Sanctions are extremely difficult to enforce.
When I was a soldier in the South African army we had.

• French fighters
• French helicopters, transport and gunships.
• French submarines.
• Belgian FN machine guns and rifles.
• Italian pistols.
• Italian trainers and fighter bombers.
• Tanks used Detroit diesels.
• IFV's used German diesels.

The list goes on, there were a lot of people making a lot of money circumventing sanctions. I had a friend who was an engineering lieutenant, he was sent to France on an all expenses paid trip to purchase match grade ammunition and military compasses. Two guys with thick South African accents and short haircuts buying military supplies, obviously the French knew what was going on.

 

[marccongdon]

why the f are we still buying anything from Russia!? Lol

The funniest part about that is how risky it must be to do business with russian companies, even if you don't consider the sanctions there are so many other war related issues that could prevent whatever you're buying from being made or shipped and then you're stuck with no recourse.

 

[TaperPin]

The funniest part about that is how risky it must be to do business with russian companies, even if you don't consider the sanctions there are so many other war related issues that could prevent whatever you're buying from being made or shipped and then you're stuck with no recourse.

That’s for sure! margins would have to be really high.

 

[Milling man]

The funniest part about that is how risky it must be to do business with russian companies, even if you don't consider the sanctions there are so many other war related issues that could prevent whatever you're buying from being made or shipped and then you're stuck with no recourse.

This is matter of margin, as rightly noted above. Usually this is done by individual companies of several people who are not affraid of closure or sanctions.
Nothing will ever prevent someone from reloading a machine from ship to ship in neutral waters, choosing the right weather (clouds will hide the event from satellites) and then saying that the container with the machine fell into the sea due to poor fastening and a small storm. I hope that this situation will give impetus to the development of really reliable relocation detectors. What is used now was designed 20 years ago and does not stand up to criticism in terms of standard approaches to secure devices. Yes - all these relocators are terribly inconvenient, you cannot move YOUR machine across YOUR floor, but I see no other way to prevent the new Mazak from getting into Russia, Iran or somewhere else.

 

[Trboatworks]

I wonder if sanctions are better thought of as friction in the economy than an absolute ban.
The work around is more costly.

We should see them act as inflationary and see GDP falter eh?
Ru is a petro economy- what - 60% of gdp tied up in energy exports??

 

[standardparts]

This is matter of margin, as rightly noted above. Usually this is done by individual companies of several people who are not affraid of closure or sanctions.
Nothing will ever prevent someone from reloading a machine from ship to ship in neutral waters, choosing the right weather (clouds will hide the event from satellites) and then saying that the container with the machine fell into the sea due to poor fastening and a small storm. I hope that this situation will give impetus to the development of really reliable relocation detectors. What is used now was designed 20 years ago and does not stand up to criticism in terms of standard approaches to secure devices. Yes - all these relocators are terribly inconvenient, you cannot move YOUR machine across YOUR floor, but I see no other way to prevent the new Mazak from getting into Russia, Iran or somewhere else.

No doubt Russia or any other country impacted by sanctions of some type will find a work-around.
Most times the country affected resorts to indigenous manufacturing to overcome a shortage and sheds reliance on others to keep their industry/economy moving.
Examples of this all over the world.
In the meantime---I believe U.S. based Haas is still the largest machine tool manufacturer in the Western Word...or so corporate says. That's a good thing.

 

[Milling man]

I wonder if sanctions are better thought of as friction in the economy than an absolute ban.

Sanctions have never been an absolute ban. The USSR was able to buy and put into operation two Japanese (from Toyoda, if I'm not mistaken) 8-meter rotary-milling machines for processing submarine propellers. This story is full of anecdotes, I can't even come up with this on purpose)))))
And only in recent years, it seems to me, there is a chance to reduce the possibility of launching such equipment "where it is prohibited" to practically zero. Modern CNC systems and electronics allow this.
And as for what does not contain electronics, it will always end up in Russia in some quantity. Look at China - they are being shot for drug trafficking! Did it help to completely destroy the drug trade in China? No. If someone is willing to pay 100,000 euros for a barrel of Blaser coolant, someone will agree to sell it.
Approximately this was the strategy of the industry of the Soviet Sobz - to do everything you can yourself, and not even to try to do single very complex things, but to buy - it will still be more profitable. At the Soviet machine tool factories for grinding the beds, Waldrich Coburg and Heckert machines were mainly used (yes, it seems both of these brands are not from communism))))

 

[boosted]

In the meantime---I believe U.S. based Haas is still the largest machine tool manufacturer in the Western Word...or so corporate says. That's a good thing.

I suspect corporate is full of it.

If we're talking Western Hemisphere - it's not like there's much competition anymore. Maybe a couple of niche builders in the US, and ROMI in Brazil. Pretty small time operations on this side of the ocean.

If our definition of "west" means Western Europe and the USA, then HAAS is definitely not the biggest MTB. Several European brands list bigger annual revenue, including DMG pre (and post) merger, Georg Fischer, and Grob.

 

[standardparts]

I suspect corporate is full of it.

If we're talking Western Hemisphere - it's not like there's much competition anymore. Maybe a couple of niche builders in the US, and ROMI in Brazil. Pretty small time operations on this side of the ocean.

If our definition of "west" means Western Europe and the USA, then HAAS is definitely not the biggest MTB. Several European brands list bigger annual revenue, including DMG pre (and post) merger, Georg Fischer, and Grob.

How about this:
"Haas Automation is the largest machine tool builder in the United States, and one of the largest builders of CNC machines in the world."

Sounds like a good thing.

 

[boosted]

I think that qualifier is a very important distinction, but we can certainly agree that almost any manufacturing capacity that stays in the USA is a good thing.

 

[Rob F.]

It looks like PBS has brought up the Haas- Russia issue again. New story from a few days ago:

 

[gustafson]

I would think that in a sanctions regime, one would be a little more curious about a new customer buying spare parts for machines it never purchased, if only for self protection
Ever try to buy spare parts without a s/n, not sure with Haas...

 

[standardparts]

It looks like PBS has brought up the Haas- Russia issue again. New story from a few days ago:

Watched a bit of it...lots of innuendo and maybe someone with lots of Haas hate?
Easy solution would be for Haas to "donate" a shit-ton of CNCs to Ukraine and a big donation to PBS.
In any event should revive a few pages worth of Haas hate.