Advice wanted on a cold saw for an Engineering workshop

[projectnut]

90% of engineers have no business in a machine shop without close supervision - yes they are capable of learning but at what price?

A classic conversation -
Grumpy old machinist - Son, are you about to use that brand new 8 pitch bandsaw blade to cut that 1/4" rod.
Young engineer - Yes, what of it?
Grumpy old machinist - Well its just that from ten foot away I can tell it is an RC60 Thompson rail and that blade too coarse for that diameter even if it were aluminum.
Young engineer - RC60, 8 pitch, what is all that?
Grumpy old machinist - You wonder why the older engineers aren't in here working on their parts?
Young engineer - No not really.

Grumpy - Because they understand it is not as easy as it looks. <takes rod and walks to abrasive wet saw> How long you want this?
...

I'm glad I didn't work in a place like that. I started in an experimental machine design shop working closely with top shelf machinists. Half the guys were from the "old country" and had a German accent so thick they sometimes slipped into a full German tirade if they made a mistake. On the other hand they were the best mentors one could ask for. If you were interested in learning they would be more than happy to teach you what you needed to know. They had the patience of saints, and would calmly interject themselves should they see a situation developing that could either ruin a part, a machine, or injure someone.

I worked side by side with these gentlemen for over 10 years. I certainly had mixed feelings the day the boss approached me and told me I was getting a promotion. The money was a bit better, but it meant my education in the shop was going to be more limited. I must admit I came back to the shop whenever possible. I was able to continue to learn, but at a much slower pace than when I was there full time.

Over the following 6 years almost all of the machinists chose to retire. The company tried for a few more years to hire qualified replacements, but by that time HR was more or less running the place. To them it was more important to have the proper mix of demographics than to have highly skilled people. In the end the shop closed down for lack of qualified personnel. I remained with the company another 4 years. At that time I was offered a early buy out I couldn't refuse. I enjoyed my entire time working with those gentlemen, and wouldn't trade it for the world. But as we all know time moves on and change is inevitable.

One good part of the situation was that I was able to buy a number of machines from the company shop. Over the years I was able to accumulate enough machinery to populate my own shop. I did a lot of prototype work for several years. Most work these days is repairing, or making repair parts for older machinery, and personal projects.

 

[idacal]

I have an old kalamazoo cold saw that is great for precision cuts angles and stuff 24 rpm or something like that. but its in storage and i use a band saw, and a hot saw, maybe the blades dull or something but it is slow! you would think with that kind of budget a salesman would bring something out and let you test it.

 

[sandiapaul]

"Whether you are cutting meat or a meteorite,
a DoAll band saw will cut it."
YUP!

 

[Toolmaker51]

I don't recall anyone recording this conversation, perhaps the old 'fly on the wall'?

We had one of these near-ingineers/ production managers. "I have experience in production environments!".

Turned out to be a check printing outfit....... Yeah, ink, paper & glue, and clueless why a vertical bandsaw 'to improve work flow' isn't supposed to be in a corner.

He begged too often for my tape measure (2nd time lol).
No; I can't roll in here without a box full of instruments and work tools; you have an expense account. Buzz off.
He stormed off, directly to the real supervisor (a real machinist) all demonstrative and gesturing in my direction.

The super looked at me, in clear view of the near-gineer, with a big smile and thumbs up.

 

[Toolmaker51]

we bought our saw from World Saw in LA and were treated very good by them. They also come get our dull blades, re-sharpen them and bring them back! And their sharpening service is very economical. I believe the guy I talked to there is Michael Young

I'll heartily recommend Doringer/ Cold Saws of America, Gardena, CA. A peek inside will tell you why. New, refurb, rebuilt, sharpening, just helpful to a fault.
Another great shop; sharpening at Paramount Saw, Paramount CA. Same exact vibe. Reasonable, quick service and know the ropes of blade cutting in general.
Now that I'm back in Midwest, I'd still mail for that grade of service.

 

[Toolmaker51]

I'm glad I didn't work in a place like that. I started in an experimental machine design shop working closely with top shelf machinists. Half the guys were from the "old country" and had a German accent <<<<snip>>>> I did a lot of prototype work for several years. Most work these days is repairing, or making repair parts for older machinery, and personal projects.

Much the same, Swedes, English and Romanians. Learned by the bucket-load and just plain fun workdays. I'm engaged right now standing up a full scale toolroom of my own, private building and all. I don't think any initiative to do so grows out of more recent generations.
Not just believe, convinced offshoring grew out from reduction of vocational education, by design. Who better to pitch at, than who has no clue how materials become things?
Conspiracy? Maybe.... show us how it isn't.

 

[john.k]

I had a friction saw,big Brobo Unicutter......25hp .IIRC......more noise than a jet engine.....but completely maintenance free,dumbest youff couldnt damage it with bundled thinwall stainless tube......and quick .

 

[michiganbuck]

Qt OP (and does not have a dedicated machinist.)
So it sounds like a joke, reinventing the wheel is the last thing one wants to do.

Just find the very highest priced cold saw and buy it, That is what my wife would do.

 

[projectnut]

I'm a bit surprised this old thread still has some life. It's a bit ironic it should be revived at this time since I just recently purchased a Baileigh CS-350EU cold saw. This one is a true cold saw with variable blade speeds between 24 and 120 rpm. I must say it does an excellent job and is slightly more accurate than any of the other saws. The upside is that it is accurate enough that in many cases there is no need to mill or turn the cut end to true it.

The downsides are that it's by far louder than either the bandsaw or power hacksaw. In addition, it's hard to keep the coolant from slobbering on the floor when cutting pieces longer than the machine is wide. Coolant runs along the length of the work piece and onto the floor. The third inconvenience is even with the coolant flow swarf has a tendency to pile up on the vise and in the coolant drain. The coolant trough and drain need to be cleaned multiple times a day to keep from making a horrendous mess on the floor. Finally, it needs different blades for different materials. One blade will work for multiple ferrous materials, but a totally different one is needed for non-ferrous materials. The cheapest blades are around $150.00 with the more expensive ones nearing $300.00. I do like the saw and will use it on a regular basis. These are just some of the things that need to be dealt with on the learning curve.

 

[michiganbuck]

Q: How much time would you estimate to saw through a 1" square mild steep part.'

 

[memphisjed]

Q: How much time would you estimate to saw through a 1" square mild steep part.'

8 seconds, 5 if you need it now. 4 if you need it yesterday, 3.7 if you leave the saw guy alone.

Band saw.

 

[Pete Deal]

In my experience with shops that have lots of people using metal cutting saws of any type is that lots of blades get ruined.

 

[projectnut]

So far, the only things I've cut are 1 1/8" solid round and 2 1/4" solid round. Since I'm a newbie with the machine I'm probably slower than a seasoned veteran. The 1 1/8" round took about 15 seconds and the 2 1/4" took over a minute. I'm sure I could have pushed the saw to cut it faster, but I was looking to cut slugs to determine if the blade was tracking correctly. I don't know how worn the blade is and didn't want to force it enough to flex and break or influence tracking.

It might be just dumb luck, but after a number of minor adjustments to the tracking eccentric the last half dozen slugs vary .001" or less from the top to the bottom of the cut. The closest repeatable variation I can find in published information is .004" from top to bottom. Time will tell if the current .001 or less is an anomaly or what I can expect on a regular basis.

 

[jtaylor]

You might try The FMB line of mitering bandsaws - they've been at it a while and make nice products.
This is one of the US Dealers: https://www.patmooneysaws.com/brands/fmb/
Try one of the smaller ones, but not he smallest...

 

[michiganbuck]

Q: How much time would you estimate to saw through a 1" square mild steel part.'

8 seconds, 5 if you need it now. 4 if you need it yesterday, 3.7 if you leave the saw guy alone.


*That is pretty efficient.