New Haas UMC 350 Models Coming Out Soon

[couch]

How do you flip the parts with a gripper from op1 to op2? I don't make any one op parts so this is a big one. Keep in mind there are a range of parts to flip.

Spindle orientation and Rotary orientation, between the two of those you can flip parts on any side.

 

[crossthread82]

That configuration makes very little sense to me.

So you get a 100mm platter... and nothing more. That seems like very small table space given the machine travels, so there is a bunch of dead air.

Put a 5 axis trunnion on a 3 axis table and you can use the extra table space for a whole bunch of things. Basic vise work, 2nd ops, stock prep, etc. Better yet - spindle gripper parts and you get an automation solution that costs 1/20th of an external robot, with higher process reliability. Once you see spindle grippers in action, a lot of other small-part automation solutions lose their appeal. Can't do that on a UMC350.

Or actually build a trunion and make it a decent size. Brother is doing this with the U500 - same footprint as the UMC350, but it has a 400mm table and can swing a full 500mm part - almost the same part size as a Haas UMC500, but with all the Speedio goodness, none of the Haas issues, and even a bit less expensive than the UMC500. No full 5 axis, but we all know that isn't really an issue for 95% of users.

The UMC350 is a weird machine, but Haas is going to sell the hell out of them, so none of the technical issues really matter.

Not disagreeing with that sentiment, however the U500 from brother has a 260mm platter sooooo... not that much bigger. Granted it can swing a full 500mm but it would have a lot of unsupported material hanging off the table. If brother would have made the platter 400mm I think it would be a much better buy IMO.

 

[gkoenig]

Not disagreeing with that sentiment, however the U500 from brother has a 260mm platter sooooo... not that much bigger. Granted it can swing a full 500mm but it would have a lot of unsupported material hanging off the table. If brother would have made the platter 400mm I think it would be a much better buy IMO.

My mistake! I had a Lang bolted onto my model and started thinking it was a 400mm platter.

In the end, it is going to be a heck of a machine, especially given that the pricing will come out to be about $10k less than a UMC500SS with equivalent spindle and options (the U comes with Big+, the 28 tools, and 1000 PSI TSC as stock).

 

[dstryr]

Not disagreeing with that sentiment, however the U500 from brother has a 260mm platter sooooo... not that much bigger. Granted it can swing a full 500mm but it would have a lot of unsupported material hanging off the table. If brother would have made the platter 400mm I think it would be a much better buy IMO.

You can run a 400mm part on a 260mm table no problem. I regularly run 800mm parts on a 400mm table using a huge riser and 2" 800mm sub plate.

Id rather have a smaller table thats not in your way with the option to put a larger sub plate then fight a larger table with no recourse other than longer holders

 

[crossthread82]

My mistake! I had a Lang bolted onto my model and started thinking it was a 400mm platter.

In the end, it is going to be a heck of a machine, especially given that the pricing will come out to be about $10k less than a UMC500SS with equivalent spindle and options (the U comes with Big+, the 28 tools, and 1000 PSI TSC as stock).

I haven't seen a spec for what the spindle to table distance is at A90 on the U500. That is really going to determine how much workholding stack up you can get away with. I could get a 2fold lang plate custom made to run two vises next to each other that overhangs the table but ideally id rather not have to do that. But if you want to utilize the full 500mm of swing and x travel you really need a double vise setup for longer parts.

Edit- looking at brothers numbers for spindle to table at A0 and the pictures I'm going to guess spindle center to table at 90degrees is about 220-250mm which would be pretty decent for that size of machine. Granted 100mm of that is gone between a lang plate and vise but that still leaves you with 100mm ish part area to play with once you subtract the radius of a tool.

 

[BROTHERFRANK]

I haven't seen a spec for what the spindle to table distance is at A90 on the U500. That is really going to determine how much workholding stack up you can get away with. I could get a 2fold lang plate custom made to run two vises next to each other that overhangs the table but ideally id rather not have to do that. But if you want to utilize the full 500mm of swing and x travel you really need a double vise setup for longer parts.

Edit- looking at brothers numbers for spindle to table at A0 and the pictures I'm going to guess spindle center to table at 90degrees is about 220-250mm which would be pretty decent for that size of machine. Granted 100mm of that is gone between a lang plate and vise but that still leaves you with 100mm ish part area to play with once you subtract the radius of a tool.

spindle gets to within 5.7" of the table face when A is at 0 degrees (facing up toward milling spindle). Table face is about 2" (50mm) below A axis pivot point so a 3.7" gage length tool will be able to reach the spindle centerline when A is at 90 degrees. M200 is 4.7" and M300 is 6.7"

 

[crossthread82]

spindle gets to within 5.7" of the table face when A is at 0 degrees (facing up toward milling spindle). Table face is about 2" (50mm) below A axis pivot point so a 3.7" gage length tool will be able to reach the spindle centerline when A is at 90 degrees. M200 is 4.7" and M300 is 6.7"

Hey Frank thanks for that info. I might have been unclear in what I was referring to. When I said 220-250mm I was referring to how far the machine can reach from table face when at 90 degrees aka how much can you have hanging off the table and still reach it.

 

[BROTHERFRANK]

Hey Frank thanks for that info. I might have been unclear in what I was referring to. When I said 220-250mm I was referring to how far the machine can reach from table face when at 90 degrees aka how much can you have hanging off the table and still reach it.

Yes. 250mm. The working area is a cylinder 500mm in diameter by 250mm tall. Including work holding.

 

[dstryr]

GKoenig and I discovered that a 50mm spacer between the rotary table and the casting would yield perfect results for smaller parts on the U500.

 

[NLan07]

Schunk and PHD both make adaptors with shanks to put their standard pneumatic gripper modules in a tool holder, and actuate them with TSC or through-spindle air. Combine it with a tray of parts and a pneumatic vise (also from Schunk), and you basically do what a big, complex, external robot does at a literal fraction of the price. Robot or Gripper, you need a pneumatic vise for either system - but the gripper only costs about $1000 all-in (holder, adapter, gripper).

This is a gripper running on a Spedio R650:

To me, this is the missing link between "I don't automate anything" and going on the arduous and $50k journey of part automation with external robots. Schunk even has a new aluminum body KSP vise for $2000, so you can start doing this in a couple of days for ~$3000 in any machine with through coolant or air.

Like any automation solution, it has strengths and weaknesses, but the cost and simplicity make it ideal for an extremely wide range of parts. I'm implementing it on my machine, but there are dozens of shops doing this with fantastic success.

Spindle grippers are the best kept secret in machining.

Thanks for the info!! I'm already thinking of all sorts of parts I could use that for. I'm definitely going to check that out!

 

[NLan07]

Getting the thread back on topic, after looking at the pictures of the UMC 350 models some more it actually looks like the rotaries aren't permanently attached. If you look at the pictures of the UMC 350SS specifically you can see the TRT100 rotary is clamped on with standard toe clamps like it would be on a normal 3-axis machine table. If that's the case I'm hoping Haas will give different rotary options to chose from when 'building' the machine, like they do with everything else like the spindle, tool changer, extra options, etc. on their other machines. That would make a whole lot more sense. My guess is the TRT100 and TRT210 are what will come 'standard' on each machine, but they'll both be swappable for other options.

 

[empower]

Getting the thread back on topic, after looking at the pictures of the UMC 350 models some more it actually looks like the rotaries aren't permanently attached. If you look at the pictures of the UMC 350SS specifically you can see the TRT100 rotary is clamped on with standard toe clamps like it would be on a normal 3-axis machine table. If that's the case I'm hoping Haas will give different rotary options to chose from when 'building' the machine, like they do with everything else like the spindle, tool changer, extra options, etc. on their other machines. That would make a whole lot more sense. My guess is the TRT100 and TRT210 are what will come 'standard' on each machine, but they'll both be swappable for other options.

hold up... they're actually just bolting on a TRT100 on this bitch?

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

what a piece of turd

 

[gkoenig]

If you look at the pictures of the UMC 350SS specifically you can see the TRT100 rotary is clamped on with standard toe clamps like it would be on a normal 3-axis machine table

Incredible!

 

[mhajicek]

 

[GiroDyno]

I suppose that's better than hose clamps or zip ties

 

[empower]

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[Vancbiker]

Did the Swissmak joker get a job at Haas?????

 

[TKassoc]

Still a less dumb idea than their b-axis mill-turn on a VMC frame.

It does have a tighter kinematic loop than just setting that rotary on a standard table...so improvement I guess...

 

[empower]

i'm willing to bet this machine will run circles around the abomination that is the umc350

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[mhajicek]

I had a TRT160Y on a VF-3SS for six years, and with dynamic roughing Ti with a 1/2" 7 flute at Helical's recommended parameters the trunnion would move a bit over time unless I used eight of those clamps tightened with cheater bars. I also had to put two strips of .010" shim under the edges, since the bottom wasn't flat and it wanted to rock.

I suppose the advantage (besides being cheap and easy for them to assemble) is that when you bump it you can realign it easily enough. But I'd definitely want a more secure connection.