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‘39 10EE tachometer repair

Leadscrew69

New member
Hey all I have a 1939 EE and the tachometer does not work. I pulled the lid off the headstock and verified the mechanical components are intact and working. Ruling that out I pulled the tach from the machine. I noted that the tail of the needle was missing, and that makes me suspect someone had been in here before. The needle responds to spinning the drive, but erratically and sometimes not at all, and I can hear something is not right in there. I don’t see how to take it apart, and I’m wondering if anyone here has some advice or experience that could help me disassemble the tach to inspect the internals, or that may have a lead on a replacement tachometer if this one turns out not worth fixing. Thanks
Alex.
 

Leadscrew69

New member
Dave,
Thank you for sharing this informative link to help figure this one out. Once I removed the needle and dial, I noticed right away that the perch with the small factory set metering screw was bent out enough to allow the spindle to drop out. How that could happen I’m not sure. I just bent it back in place with my thumb and spun it over and the spring and rotor work again. I checked the magnet and other components before I put it all together, and replaced the busted needle with a neat little red one I had on a clock that no longer worked. I made sure it was same thickness of the original, and length of the original in a photo of an original for
reference. I put it all back on the machine and fired it up. Works but I’d like to verify accuracy somehow. This machine had its Sunstrand drive removed and fitted with an older VFD and Baldor 5HP motor long before I got it, but I wonder if 1275 RPM is all it puts out now or the tach is way out of calibration. Little of both I suppose. I’ll look further into this, but thank you for the help!
Alex
 

thermite

Active member
or the tach is way out of calibration.

Alex, do an ebay search for "Biddle tachometer" Several under fifty bucks a few minutes ago. I have two other types plus two types of non-contact electronic ones as H-F and better offer for small money.

The old Biddle is the handiest. The others just take up space most of the time.
 

thermite

Active member
Old school time: get a Starrett or any other brand of mechanical rev counter and do your own calibration. I would aim for 5% accuracy, but you could do better.

Here's one for $10:

L.S. Starrett RPM Gauge Tachometer Speed Indicator Revolution counter Athol,MA | eBay
Meahh spend the other thirty or forty bucks.

Starret & c. are stone-age. You need to also have a time-source,

Jaquet, I think it is? More accurate as the stopwatch is built-in and you can do ten second or fifteen second shots and extrapolate.

Here's another Jaquet derivation that works OK:

H.H. Sticht Co Tachometer Jaquet's Indicator No 2302 Vintage in Case Accessories | eBay

The geared Biddle is top of the food chain, though.

Antique Vintage James G. Biddle Co. Hand Tachometer Steampunk Decor | eBay

The handier to use of but two types that are instantaneous-calculating and continuously displaying.

Which is REALLY a great deal handier if/as/when adjusting brush timing or any other use where there is any variability and you don't want to be hunched-up and crippled-up off holding the silly rubber tip in place for 10, 15, 30, or 60 seconds.. NOR.. having to "reset" and try again for several goes at it.

The Biddle also has "ranges" so it is waaay more fine-grain accurate that the OEM Stewart-Warner. That dial only covers the preset "range", so each division works harder.

"Calibrate" was mentioned?

Biddle!
 

Leadscrew69

New member
Thanks for the tip I’ll look into a few of the options out there but I do like the idea of having the “old school knowledge” in my back pocket. The Serial number is 7321, so a late December ‘39. Terrie sent me the original build info pdf and the machine was ordered to Harrison Radiator Division, General Motors Co. in Lockport New York. The pallet it was on when I bought it had a tag from a casting company in P.A. I’m in Cleveland Ohio so it seems this machine as been out near me the whole time. It now resides in my home shop where I work on old motorcycles.
 

Toolmaker51

Member
Caveat for ads touting Steam Punk before more important details like, 'it works'. Any bozo who can't figure out how to test hasn't even an electric hand drill, or is well, a bozo.
Of direct contact instruments, some need to be timed, greater accuracy is attained through longer specific periods, as long within counting ability [more or less an odometer] of the instrument. Matters not 35 seconds, or 140, its derived from 60.
Timing? That funky 70's digital watch, a stop watch, analog wrist watch, a cell phone, kitchen timer......
 

rimcanyon

Active member
The Serial number is 7321, so a late December ‘39. Terrie sent me the original build info pdf and the machine was ordered to Harrison Radiator Division, General Motors Co. in Lockport New York. The pallet it was on when I bought it had a tag from a casting company in P.A. I’m in Cleveland Ohio so it seems this machine as been out near me the whole time. It now resides in my home shop where I work on old motorcycles.

Very cool. Mine is #7552, 7/1940, so only 231 Monarch lathes were produced between. Please post some photos. The '39 lathes are quite interesting, a lot of them have some of the features shown in the patent drawings.

-Dave
 

thermite

Active member
Thanks for the tip I’ll look into a few of the options out there but I do like the idea of having the “old school knowledge” in my back pocket. The Serial number is 7321, so a late December ‘39. Terrie sent me the original build info pdf and the machine was ordered to Harrison Radiator Division, General Motors Co. in Lockport New York. The pallet it was on when I bought it had a tag from a casting company in P.A. I’m in Cleveland Ohio so it seems this machine as been out near me the whole time. It now resides in my home shop where I work on old motorcycles.

The "guts" of Stewart-Warner mechanical tachos & speedometers covered "many" layouts and even diameters of display dials and needles. In PM's annals there HAVE been some stories about these being rebuilt by speedometer repair shops. Which type of shops must, by now, be few and far between, largely serving the "classic" restored auto and cycle markets, and charging accordingly.

I just snatched-up several "NOS" Stewart-Warner "Marine / Diesel" tachometers, complete - because they already had a useful RPM range for my MG-era "round dial" 10EE's.. whereas a 6,000 or 8,000 RPM automotive, or a 12,000 or so motorcycle tacho isn't even close.

On my 1942 the OEM tach works fine. The 1944 is in need, and I have acquired an OEM tach in used condition, untested, out of another round-dial part-out.

Can these newer ones be adapted as replacements?

"Probably" but not trivially.

Arse end:

SW_OEM_VS_marine_diesel_housings.jpg

Faces:

SW-face_compare.jpg

Note depth and drive input differences that might require a tube to position the tacho protruding from the surface of the HS so the clamp and drive end could be adapted.

OTOH, these are not the only possible donors, the goods are cheap, and if done with care, an original tach could be put in when you find one LATER.

I am NOT married to the original location, however.

I'd PREFER a tacho in a "bullet pod" (common auto accessory..) and on a stalk so the head can be swiveled and aimed directly at the operator's eyeshot. My speed controls go on the apron, not the body of the lathe. Why have to move?

That gets easier if an electrical (analog tacho-generator sender) or electronic (digital/pulse sender) is used instead of mechanical.

So I have several types of these in the "Hell box" , S-W & European.

SW-electronic_back.jpg

Note the DIP switch rather than a socket for a mechanical shaft.

NB: The "collection" because I have two mills and one other lathe (Cazeneuve) to put tachos onto as well.

One mill already has a mechanical output 'coz a tach was a factory option.
Even so, I may go electronic off Hall-effect, mag-prox, or optical sender.

It's just cheaper, easier, better, and has all manner of "appearance" choices, what with the massive vehicle market.

All "futures" stuff, no pressing need, and too much else on my plate already, so "don't wait on ME!" .. to tell or show the way!

:D
 

Terrain2015

New member
Old school time: get a Starrett or any other brand of mechanical rev counter and do your own calibration. I would aim for 5% accuracy, but you could do better.

Here's one for $10:

L.S. Starrett RPM Gauge Tachometer Speed Indicator Revolution counter Athol,MA | eBay

BTW, what is the serial number of your machine and who was the original owner? You can ask Terrie to look that up if you aren't sure.

How would I be able to get Terrie to look up the original owner of my 10EE?
Sorry for the off topic reply...
 

rimcanyon

Active member
How would I be able to get Terrie to look up the original owner of my 10EE?
Sorry for the off topic reply...

Just ask her. They seem to have that info for most lathes, although there were some that were bought under secret govt contracts where that info is not available.
 

texasgeartrain

Active member
How would I be able to get Terrie to look up the original owner of my 10EE?
Sorry for the off topic reply...

You call Monarch at 937 492-4111. Provide your lathe's serial number. If you ask for the build sheet and the manual for the lathe it'll cost you like $50-$60 and they'll ship it to you. The build sheet will have the dealer and the original customer at the top. If you're nice they might email you the build sheet after you place the order.:D
 








 
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