I have been searching here and other locations on the web regarding an oil leak issue I am having on my "new to me" 1942 round dial 10EE. I hope someone may be able to help me. When I add oil to my rear headstock bearing, the sight glass fills to the correct level and within minutes it has drained to empty. (and I have added a significant amount of oil) I don't know where it is going....I have not yet found a large oil puddle on the floor under the machine nor can I see where it is coming out under the headstock castings...Also, I can't see how I am going to access any area under or around that part of the headstock casting without a major tear-down. Hoping someone might be able to provide some information. The manuals are not helping me much to determine where this oil is going... Thanks for any advice.
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10 ee round dial oil leak tear down question.....
- Thread starter cootbruce
- Start date
- Replies 11
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Don's Engine
Aluminum
- Joined
- May 29, 2020
Is the oil level in the center headstock coming up? A leak between the rear chamber and center isn't uncommon at all. Is it really leaking that fast though? Mine will purge to the center chamber but it usually takes weeks. If its dumping that fast between chambers, then yes, you'll have to pull the upper spindle out and reseal it. Don
daryl bane
Titanium
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2002
- Location
- East Texas
I may regret this, but I wouldn't worry about it, unless as Don mentioned, it is running out all over the place. Monarch did away with the separate rear bearing oil compartment in the 60's? I believe ( and Cal or whoever can correct me) that Monarch determined that the rear bearing was getting adequate oiling thru splash from the main compartment. On mine(1959), the original rear bearing had a hole thru the outer race. It was installed hole down so that it would sit in the cast reservoir of the rear chamber. The oil would eventually pick up into the bearing and run out into the main compartment. The replacement bearings in this configuration are NLS. I have the newer (non holy) type in mine, and it seems to be just fine after 20+ years, and I only put the oil in that compartment just so I can see it on the sight glass for grins, and even then, it wicks out in a month or two.
Last edited:
GrantGunderson
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2021
- Location
- Bellingham, WA
There is drain for the front bearing directly under the head stock. I'd check there first to see if there is oil.
See the above hole. The drain is directly bellow it.
There is a good chance the packing on this shaft is leaking
Thats most likely the issue.
Another possible location is this set screw hole that would drain directly above the gear box.
Finally, on either side of the machine under the gear box or the rear contractor cover (check that one first) there is two drain holes to drain that area into the main sump under the bed of the lathe.
Check if you have oil in any of these spots. It will help to narrow it down.
Cal Haines
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Location
- Tucson, AZ
If the rear bearing reservoir is draining down in a few minutes, that's a problem. You might be able fill it, rotate the spindle by hand and get enough oil on the bearings to safely run for short periods of time, but I think you want to fix that sooner than later. The later square-dial machines that Daryl mentioned have an oil skimmer and tubing to route oil to the front and rear bearings; round-dial's do not.
This thread discusses the rear bearing labyrinth seal, etc..
There's a thread somewhere that discusses the oil return passage from the rear bearing retainer to the center reservoir, but I'm not able to find it right now. I think that Grant's thread may have a photo.
We've seen machines that have the passage poorly drilled, such that oil can leak directly from the middle of the reservoir into the return passage. It may also be that there's something going on with the rear retainer, so that oil can move past the bearing and directly into the return passage. Pull the rear bearing retainer and let's see what you have going on.
This thread discusses the rear bearing labyrinth seal, etc..
10EE Rear Bearing Diagrams, Changes
This post is copied from Need help with my new 10EE - post #223. It makes more sense to discuss this in its own topic. I'll discuss detail of the 10EE's rear bear section, including the labyrinth oil and how things have changed over time. This is a section of drawing EE-99 (October 1941)...
www.practicalmachinist.com
We've seen machines that have the passage poorly drilled, such that oil can leak directly from the middle of the reservoir into the return passage. It may also be that there's something going on with the rear retainer, so that oil can move past the bearing and directly into the return passage. Pull the rear bearing retainer and let's see what you have going on.
Thank you all for your replies and information. You have given me a very good starting point. Someone had asked if it is really leaking within a couple of minutes and ....I hate to say...it is. But now I have some good information to start tracking down what is going on...thanks again everyone!
rimcanyon
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Location
- Salinas, CA USA
There was some misinformation in Grant’s post, so to prevent someone reading this from being misled, here is a more accurate description.
The photo showing the hole below the rear main does not show the drain for the rear main cavity. That drain is for the rear oil slinger. Cal alluded to the possibility that the drain was mis-drilled (or there is a void in the casting) allowing oil to get into that passage. At least one 10EE was found with such an issue.
The packing for the thread/feed shifter shaft often leaks, and can be fixed by tightening the nut occasionally. However, it has no bearing on the level of oil in the rear bearing reservoir. When it leaks, the oil makes its way to a small weep hole in front of the lathe bed, so if it is continually wet in that area, tighten the packing nut.
Dave
The photo showing the hole below the rear main does not show the drain for the rear main cavity. That drain is for the rear oil slinger. Cal alluded to the possibility that the drain was mis-drilled (or there is a void in the casting) allowing oil to get into that passage. At least one 10EE was found with such an issue.
The packing for the thread/feed shifter shaft often leaks, and can be fixed by tightening the nut occasionally. However, it has no bearing on the level of oil in the rear bearing reservoir. When it leaks, the oil makes its way to a small weep hole in front of the lathe bed, so if it is continually wet in that area, tighten the packing nut.
Dave
Cal Haines
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Location
- Tucson, AZ
Correct. Here's one Grant's photos (from post #252), with a pink wire fed through the rear bearing return passage:
The way this works is: the rear bearing retainer has an annular channel that collects the oil that spins off of the slinger. (How the channel is formed depends on the type of rear bearing retainer.) The bearing retainer has a passage from the annular channel, formed by drilling two holes at right angles, that line up with the drain hole in the headstock.
Cal Haines
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Location
- Tucson, AZ
Your pictures are very low resolution and I can't tell what you're trying to show. What are you using to upload your photos?
If you're seeing oil on top of the bed casting, under the AC contactor, on the back of the headstock, and under the quick-change gearbox, you probably just have a plugged drain hole. There's a depression cast into the base that collects oil and drains it into the chip pan:
Some machines only have the center drain hole. You'll find the overflow drain hole near the joint between the base and the bed, directly under the spindle (sometimes they get painted shut or otherwise plugged up).
Most 10EEs have an overflow tube that drains excess oil from the center reservoir into the chip pan, so the oil just seems to vanish:
You can see the overflow line on my 10EE. Look on the left side of the frame, just above the cap for the center reservoir drain. That tube discharges into the depression under the headstock.
Do you have the overflow tube? Is the center drain from the depression into the chip pan plugged?
If you're seeing oil on top of the bed casting, under the AC contactor, on the back of the headstock, and under the quick-change gearbox, you probably just have a plugged drain hole. There's a depression cast into the base that collects oil and drains it into the chip pan:
Some machines only have the center drain hole. You'll find the overflow drain hole near the joint between the base and the bed, directly under the spindle (sometimes they get painted shut or otherwise plugged up).
Most 10EEs have an overflow tube that drains excess oil from the center reservoir into the chip pan, so the oil just seems to vanish:
You can see the overflow line on my 10EE. Look on the left side of the frame, just above the cap for the center reservoir drain. That tube discharges into the depression under the headstock.
Do you have the overflow tube? Is the center drain from the depression into the chip pan plugged?
rimcanyon
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Location
- Salinas, CA USA
Just to reiterate what Cal is pointing out, and what has been mentioned before, the top of the base casting has drains to empty oil drips from both the headstock and the gearbox into the main oil sump below the bed. If the packing gland nut needs tightening, you will never see it out in front of the machine, the drips go down onto the top of the base casting and then into the sump. If you remove the small casting on the front of the headstock, you can get to the gland nut and tighten it. That is the main source of oil loss from the headstock.
Sorry about the poor photo quality.....I think you nailed what is going on with my machine. what you describe is exactly what is going on in my machine. I just need to re-read your posts and get it into my head to go after the drain hole and gland nut....thank you very much for your help on this....I am anxious to get into my shop tonight and see if it fixes it.
