10ee kinamatic 5hp brush and spring source?

[Brandenberger]

Hi,

I have 1962 10ee, square dial modular with the GE kinamatic motor.

I have the motor out now.

It is a GE 5CD218 type, original to the machine I’m sure, with two brushes.

The commutator was dark but not too worn to my eye, I stoned it lightly by hand.

One of the two brushes makes a squeaking noise as the motor is turned, the other is quiet. The brushes are approx 1” long now.

Pictures before and after stoning:




I also wrapped the commutator in 400grit sandpaper and sanded the brushes, but one still squeaks. If I manually push that spring it quiets down, so I’m suspecting I just need a new spring there.

I’ve asked monarch for pricing on brushes and springs (2 needed), wonder if anyone else has a source they’ve used recently for this motor, particularly for the springs?

Thanks,
Phil

 

[Mr_CNC_guy]

If your springs look OK and feel good, I would not worry about them. Sometimes brushes squeak, that is just the way it is. If they are 1 inch long, then they are not worn out. I think that you are good to go.

 

[Brandenberger]

Thanks for the feedback, I exchanged the brush springs and did a bit more fine sanding of the brushes themselves. They quieted down a bit more. Put back into the machine and run nicely.

Which is good-- I heard back from Terrie at Monarch that they can no longer supply the brushes and springs for this motor, so other suppliers would need to be found if I'd had to replace them.

 

[Cal Haines]

AFIK, Monarch sources their brushes from Helwig Carbon. Give them a call. If they don't have the right brush, they may have one that you can modify to fit.

 

[KT_NorCal]

Hi,

I have 1962 10ee, square dial modular with the GE kinamatic motor.

I have the motor out now.

It is a GE 5CD218 type, original to the machine I’m sure, with two brushes.

The commutator was dark but not too worn to my eye, I stoned it lightly by hand.

One of the two brushes makes a squeaking noise as the motor is turned, the other is quiet. The brushes are approx 1” long now.

Pictures before and after stoning:

View attachment 388735
View attachment 388736

I also wrapped the commutator in 400grit sandpaper and sanded the brushes, but one still squeaks. If I manually push that spring it quiets down, so I’m suspecting I just need a new spring there.

I’ve asked monarch for pricing on brushes and springs (2 needed), wonder if anyone else has a source they’ve used recently for this motor, particularly for the springs?

Thanks,
Phil

Re the squeaky spring.... Sometimes the commutators on motors can wear out of round and what you may be hearing is the brush "pistoning" against the commutator. When I have motors stripped down I often just skim the commutator even if it looks decent for this reason... Probably a bit harder to do when we are talking about the motor that actually drives your lathe though!

 

[rakort]

Nice work on the comm clean up and sounds like you seated the brushes as well. That is what it needed!

Brian

 

[Brandenberger]

Thanks it does run pretty nicely now! Much quieter than before.

Only problem left is field weakening doesn’t seem to work, max speed is ~1500rpm. I’ll have to figure out why that is! Machine originally shipped as 4000rpm as per the purchase sheet.

 

[rke[pler]

It sounds like the field weakening isn't functioning. I'd suspect the field acceleration relay. Open the front panel and look for the relay, it might be the one on the lower right. This relay listens to the current on the motor and gives you full field when the current is high. It might be maladjusted or stuck. I believe it's a normally open relay so slipping an insulator between the open contacts might restore function for testing but you'll have to start in a low speed.

 

[Brandenberger]

Did some testing today, and in particular measured the DC field voltage at various speeds.

The field weakening is functioning somewhat… at base speed or lower the field is ~120vdc, and at the max achievable speed it reduces to about ~51v, but at that point the FA relay is opening and closing and the rpm oscillates between 2000rpm and about 1800rpm. Turning the speed pot further doesn’t increase speed (I need to confirm the high speed pot is giving me full range, I think it is but not sure).

I checked the tach accuracy with a laser tach and it seems the monarch headstock tach is pretty accurate.

I have yet to pull the module as one test, and also to see whether the max speed pot is causing issues…

 

[rke[pler]

Did some testing today, and in particular measured the DC field voltage at various speeds.

The field weakening is functioning somewhat… at base speed or lower the field is ~120vdc, and at the max achievable speed it reduces to about ~51v, but at that point the FA relay is opening and closing and the rpm oscillates between 2000rpm and about 1800rpm. Turning the speed pot further doesn’t increase speed (I need to confirm the high speed pot is giving me full range, I think it is but not sure).

I checked the tach accuracy with a laser tach and it seems the monarch headstock tach is pretty accurate.

I have yet to pull the module as one test, and also to see whether the max speed pot is causing issues…

The FA relay should not be doing that. Either the relay is misadjusted, the resistor before the coil is bad, or the armature is drawing too much current.

 

[Brandenberger]

The FA relay should not be doing that. Either the relay is misadjusted, the resistor before the coil is bad, or the armature is drawing too much current.

To close out this thread-- adjusted the FA relay spring, tightened it incrementally then checking stable top speed. The machine now gets to 4000rpm.

 

[rke[pler]

Check the armature current at 2000 and 4000 rpm.

Front bearing looks a little low? Running, so that'll pull the sight glass down some but...