1901 Hendey 14X6 Pre-TieBar ConeHead Lathe

[rlsmith58]

I just bought this lathe at an auction and wondered if anyone can help identify it? It was listed as a 14x40 lathe, but I have my doubts. I've been looking online for a model to match it but have yet to find one with the motor configuration like this one. The guards look home made and I wonder if the motor is as well. Something not shown in these pictures is the 6 v-belt drive pulley on the motor. I have started disassembly and will post add'l photos as I get them.

Any help will be appreciated!
Thanks.

 

[Tom A]

It looks to be missing the tailstock quill - I hope you got that with the lathe.......

 

[M.B. Naegle]

Everything above the headstock is homemade or at least post-factory addition. Need more pictures, but more than likely this was a cone-head lathe that ran off of an overhead jack-shaft, but hard to say how much of the headstock side of that is still there. IMO, you can strip all that off and put together a more elegant assembly together that's easier to work with.

IMO, first step should be to take off all that extra stuff above the headstock, evaluate what's missing, and see what you can make or what you can find from parted out machines.

Hendeyman can tell you the machine's age/history if you provide a serial number (look at the front far right corner of the ways), and he has prints and some parts, but I highly doubt any new parts are available for a machine this old, so IMO first step should be to take off all that extra stuff above the headstock, evaluate what's missing of the original lathe, and see what you can make or what you can find from parted out machines.

 

[rlsmith58]

As promised, here are more pics. I've looked for serial numbers or other information, but can't seem to find it. The skid contains parts I took off of the lathe as I prepare to begin cleaning and assessing. The spindle spins cleanly and tightly, but until its under power I won't be sure. In between the spindle and motor mount on top was some sort of shifting mechanism. That's all I have for now, but look forward to your insights. Thanks

 

[rlsmith58]

Everything above the headstock is homemade or at least post-factory addition. Need more pictures, but more than likely this was a cone-head lathe that ran off of an overhead jack-shaft, but hard to say how much of the headstock side of that is still there. IMO, you can strip all that off and put together a more elegant assembly together that's easier to work with.

IMO, first step should be to take off all that extra stuff above the headstock, evaluate what's missing, and see what you can make or what you can find from parted out machines.

Hendeyman can tell you the machine's age/history if you provide a serial number (look at the front far right corner of the ways), and he has prints and some parts, but I highly doubt any new parts are available for a machine this old, so IMO first step should be to take off all that extra stuff above the headstock, evaluate what's missing of the original lathe, and see what you can make or what you can find from parted out machines.

I agree it might have been powered by "overhead jack-shaft" of some sort, but as doesn't seem to have the distinct conehead spindle housing. I'm very new to these and quite possibly wrong, but take a look at my more recently posted pics and see if you agree.

Also, I have looked for a serial number or even the "14x40" designation I was told it was but haven't found it yet.

Thanks, every bit helps.

 

[M.B. Naegle]

Your lathe probably pre-dates the "Tie-bar" design Hendey did with the additional cast brace above the head-stock. It looks like they modified the headstock and ditched the top and bottom cone pulleys, so you'll likely want to stick with the gearbox and v-belt set-up for speed changes. The gearbox might be an old automotive unit. You might be able to change how it all mounts though so there's less "stuff" around your headstock. A lot of tool room lathes would have a jackshaft (gearbox in your case) directly behind the headstock and the motor under that. Might make the lathe a little wider, but gives better visibility and easier to service and keep clean.

Your back-gear looks complete, but I think I see a broken tooth or two. There are some options on how to fix those depending on your skill set or what's available to you (machining in new teeth, welding up and grinding, etc.)

Do you have the half-nut parts from the apron, or the feed selector parts from the quick change gear box?

 

[Peroni]

One of a couple threads on pre tie bar Hendeys on here.

 

[dundeeshopnut]

Welcome to the " Early Hendey club" where "membership has it's challenges".
!

 

[rlsmith58]

Your lathe probably pre-dates the "Tie-bar" design Hendey did with the additional cast brace above the head-stock. It looks like they modified the headstock and ditched the top and bottom cone pulleys, so you'll likely want to stick with the gearbox and v-belt set-up for speed changes. The gearbox might be an old automotive unit. You might be able to change how it all mounts though so there's less "stuff" around your headstock. A lot of tool room lathes would have a jackshaft (gearbox in your case) directly behind the headstock and the motor under that. Might make the lathe a little wider, but gives better visibility and easier to service and keep clean.

Your back-gear looks complete, but I think I see a broken tooth or two. There are some options on how to fix those depending on your skill set or what's available to you (machining in new teeth, welding up and grinding, etc.)

Do you have the half-nut parts from the apron, or the feed selector parts from the quick change gear box?

No, I'm afraid what I showed in the pics is all I have. I assume parts are few and hard to find, so I would have to source them differently (either make them myself or a local machine shop).

I saw the broken tooth also. My stepson is a good welder and wondered if building it back up then milling it down to size was an option. My question was whether I would need to go through getting it hardened afterwards or not.

The milling part is also a question. I am currently restoring an old Bridgeport. I have a part for it that I could sure use a lathe to make it. Now, I have a lathe that needs work that with a mill would be very helpful. My guess, they both started somewhere, like which came first - the chicken or the egg.

 

[rlsmith58]

Welcome to the " Early Hendey club" where "membership has it's challenges".
!

That's a beautiful piece of history! I hope my Hendey turns out that well.

 

[johnoder]

No three speed "range" gearbox left of QC gearbox means well over 115 years old. Also right end of bed casting is "closed", another ancient feature. Serial will be on that right end stamped into machined cast iron in between two front bed ways.
Here is the much later "manual", from about 1920

http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/docs/hendey/1920-Hendey-manual.pdf

have fun
Nothing wrong with the TS casting other than it is sitting on the lathe bed backwards

 

[M.B. Naegle]

No, I'm afraid what I showed in the pics is all I have. I assume parts are few and hard to find, so I would have to source them differently (either make them myself or a local machine shop).

I saw the broken tooth also. My stepson is a good welder and wondered if building it back up then milling it down to size was an option. My question was whether I would need to go through getting it hardened afterwards or not.

The milling part is also a question. I am currently restoring an old Bridgeport. I have a part for it that I could sure use a lathe to make it. Now, I have a lathe that needs work that with a mill would be very helpful. My guess, they both started somewhere, like which came first - the chicken or the egg.

IMO, building up the broken tooth via brazing or TIG welding and then cutting it back to size would be a good repair. Those parts shouldn't be hard, in fact it would be good to anneal the piece after welding as it can harden on it's own making it hard to cut back to size and causing wear on the mating gear afterwards. I'd also recommend letting in a few small dowel pins to build up the weld around. Kind a like pouring pilings for a concrete foundation.

For the other missing pieces. Keep an eye out on eBay and local classifieds. If you can find another pre-tie-bar machine of the same swing, parts have a better chance of interchanging. Machines this old didn't have truly interchangeable parts though IMO. They made things to the same specs, but there was plenty of hand fitting involved during assembly (especially in regards to precision surfaces), and people were not as concerned with buying replacement parts back then from the OEM. If something broke, you're a machine shop so you fixed it yourself!

 

[rlsmith58]

IMO, building up the broken tooth via brazing or TIG welding and then cutting it back to size would be a good repair. Those parts shouldn't be hard, in fact it would be good to anneal the piece after welding as it can harden on it's own making it hard to cut back to size and causing wear on the mating gear afterwards. I'd also recommend letting in a few small dowel pins to build up the weld around. Kind a like pouring pilings for a concrete foundation.

For the other missing pieces. Keep an eye out on eBay and local classifieds. If you can find another pre-tie-bar machine of the same swing, parts have a better chance of interchanging. Machines this old didn't have truly interchangeable parts though IMO. They made things to the same specs, but there was plenty of hand fitting involved during assembly (especially in regards to precision surfaces), and people were not as concerned with buying replacement parts back then from the OEM. If something broke, you're a machine shop so you fixed it yourself!

What are you thinking is the age or production date for this machine? It must be after 1899 because of the list of patents on the carriage, assuming it is original.

 

[dundeeshopnut]

1899 to 1904. The serial will tell a better story.

 

[rlsmith58]

No three speed "range" gearbox left of QC gearbox means well over 115 years old. Also right end of bed casting is "closed", another ancient feature. Serial will be on that right end stamped into machined cast iron in between two front bed ways.
Here is the much later "manual", from about 1920

http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/docs/hendey/1920-Hendey-manual.pdf

have fun
Nothing wrong with the TS casting other than it is sitting on the lathe bed backwards

I found what I believe is the serial number. SN 4202 if I'm right.

 

[dundeeshopnut]

Yup! The Lord of all things Hendey might be along shortly to give you the history as decreed by the company disciples of the day.

 

[dundeeshopnut]

Mine starts with 55 [1903] so I'll take a guess that yours was built in 1902 thereabouts.

 

[rlsmith58]

Mine starts with 55 [1903] so I'll take a guess that yours was built in 1902 thereabouts.

Thank you, I had no idea she would be that old. She's rough but has really weathered time well. Now I'm really gonna like bringing her back to life.

 

[M.B. Naegle]

Think about it this way: When that lathe was first put into service, the Titanic hadn't set sail, the idea of "world wars" was still theoretical, cowboys and Indians was still a thing as there were only 45 US states and there was still "wild west" out there. Internal combustion engines and electricity were still the height of technology and not common. Flight was still science fiction to most.

Sounds like a different world, but then consider there are people alive today who knew the people who were around then. It's not THAT far back really.

 

[johnoder]

"but then consider there are people alive today who knew the people who were around then. It's not THAT far back really"
Like my Dad - almost - who was born 1908