1901 Hendey 14X6 Pre-TieBar ConeHead Lathe

[hendeyman]

rismith58:

Hendey lathe No. 4202, a 14 x 6 Cone Head model was completed during January 1901, in fact, it was the seventh lathe built
that year. It was shipped with standard equipment as shown in the catalog. The original owner was Rodale Manufacturing
Company, Inc., Emmaus, Pennsylvania. At a later date, it was owned by John Ramsey and Sons, Allentown, Pennsylvania.
In July 1962, it was owned by Mr. William T. Flood, Willow Grove, Pennsylvania. There are no longer any Patterns, Castings
or Repair Parts left in inventory for this lathe, but all of the original drawings are still in the files, so parts can be made if
required. If you will send me your mailing address, I will send you a few pages from the catalog of this period that will give
you more information about your lathe.

Hendeyman

 

[rlsmith58]

Think about it this way: When that lathe was first put into service, the Titanic hadn't set sail, the idea of "world wars" was still theoretical, cowboys and Indians was still a thing as there were only 45 US states and there was still "wild west" out there. Internal combustion engines and electricity were still the height of technology and not common. Flight was still science fiction to most.

Sounds like a different world, but then consider there are people alive today who knew the people who were around then. It's not THAT far back really.

It does seem so long ago. My grandparents were just teenagers and nearly 10 years before my parents were born, and this lathe was beginning its life in some machine shop. I look forward to learning more about it.

 

[rlsmith58]

rismith58:

Hendey lathe No. 4202, a 14 x 6 Cone Head model was completed during January 1901, in fact, it was the seventh lathe built
that year. It was shipped with standard equipment as shown in the catalog. The original owner was Rodale Manufacturing
Company, Inc., Emmaus, Pennsylvania. At a later date, it was owned by John Ramsey and Sons, Allentown, Pennsylvania.
In July 1962, it was owned by Mr. William T. Flood, Willow Grove, Pennsylvania. There are no longer any Patterns, Castings
or Repair Parts left in inventory for this lathe, but all of the original drawings are still in the files, so parts can be made if
required. If you will send me your mailing address, I will send you a few pages from the catalog of this period that will give
you more information about your lathe.

Hendeyman

I would love to hear more of her history. Please send anything you can to:
Robert Smith
773 N State Route 1-17
Momence, IL 60954
Also, let me know who to contact for part drawings if/when needed.

Thanks
Bob Smith

 

[Joe Michaels]

The descendant(s) of the Rodale who bought the Hendey Lathe were still in Emmaus, PA in the 60's-70's. At that point, the descendants were in the business of putting out magazines and books dealing with nutrition, gardening, and the like.

Emmaus, PA is quite close to Allentown, PA., so John Ramsely & Sons acquiring the lathe from a shop in Emmaus was easy enough. Mr. Flood lived in Willow Grove, PA, which is a suburb of Philadelphia, and a bit afield from Allentown. The fact that some record of Mr. Flood owning the lathe in 1962 is interesting on two counts: by 1962, Hendey was all done in Torrington, CT, and, Mr. Flood may well have been a private owner rather than a 'company'. He may well have ordered parts from Hendey/Barber Colman. Flood may have been a small shop owner, a one or two man shop in his garage or basement. How the lathe migrated out to Illinois would be a saga in itself. It is hard to imagine who would have moved what was, by 1962, an old lathe of a nearly obsolete type. Geared head lathes with roller bearings had pretty much taken over in machine shops and manufacturing plants. By some time after 1962, it would seem somewhat out of the ordinary for a lathe of this type to be relocated from southern Pennsylvania out to Illinois. In 1962, there were plenty of geared head engine lathes around as used machine tools, many being 'War Production Board' machine tools from WWII. In 1962, a WWII era lathe would be about 17-20 years old. Plenty of life left to it unless it were really worked hard and beat on. Someone obviously wanted that cone-head Hendey lathe bad enough to have moved it out to Illinois. Maybe Flood had some kind of prototype shop going,or was making some kind of specialized product in small runs, and sold the business in its entirety to someone out in Illinois.

I've made a few motorcycle runs from NY State out to visit a friend in Omaha, NE. I'd see the signs on I 80 for Momence, and always wondered about the name. Sounded important and interesting. More interesting now that R. Smith has posted about the migrating Hendey lathe.

 

[rlsmith58]

The descendant(s) of the Rodale who bought the Hendey Lathe were still in Emmaus, PA in the 60's-70's. At that point, the descendants were in the business of putting out magazines and books dealing with nutrition, gardening, and the like.

Emmaus, PA is quite close to Allentown, PA., so John Ramsely & Sons acquiring the lathe from a shop in Emmaus was easy enough. Mr. Flood lived in Willow Grove, PA, which is a suburb of Philadelphia, and a bit afield from Allentown. The fact that some record of Mr. Flood owning the lathe in 1962 is interesting on two counts: by 1962, Hendey was all done in Torrington, CT, and, Mr. Flood may well have been a private owner rather than a 'company'. He may well have ordered parts from Hendey/Barber Colman. Flood may have been a small shop owner, a one or two man shop in his garage or basement. How the lathe migrated out to Illinois would be a saga in itself. It is hard to imagine who would have moved what was, by 1962, an old lathe of a nearly obsolete type. Geared head lathes with roller bearings had pretty much taken over in machine shops and manufacturing plants. By some time after 1962, it would seem somewhat out of the ordinary for a lathe of this type to be relocated from southern Pennsylvania out to Illinois. In 1962, there were plenty of geared head engine lathes around as used machine tools, many being 'War Production Board' machine tools from WWII. In 1962, a WWII era lathe would be about 17-20 years old. Plenty of life left to it unless it were really worked hard and beat on. Someone obviously wanted that cone-head Hendey lathe bad enough to have moved it out to Illinois. Maybe Flood had some kind of prototype shop going,or was making some kind of specialized product in small runs, and sold the business in its entirety to someone out in Illinois.

I've made a few motorcycle runs from NY State out to visit a friend in Omaha, NE. I'd see the signs on I 80 for Momence, and always wondered about the name. Sounded important and interesting. More interesting now that R. Smith has posted about the migrating Hendey lathe.

I may have a little bit more history for my lathe, based on what you said. I actually bought the lathe at auction from a company in Granger Indiana. Digging a little I found the company was MAP, a supplier of acoustical insulation products, where it appeared the lathe had possibly been used in their maintenance department. MAP in Granger IN had recently closed. However I found their home location is in Easton, PA which is near Allentown. I can only guess that it may have been acquired in PA and sent to Granger, IN when the company expanded. I posted a pic of a plaque from the machine that says "Jansson Machinery Exchange of New York". Once again I guess they may be how MAP obtained the lathe from the previous owner. Now she is in my shop in Momence, IL along with a 1952 Round Ram Bridgeport Mill and a 1983 Fadal 3016 VMC, both I am in the process of restoring. Retirement has brought me time to do the things I enjoy.

 

[dundeeshopnut]

Good thing you are retarded,,,I mean RETIRED, as it will take LOTS of your time to bring your Hendey back to her former glory. LOL

 

[Joe Michaels]

The tale of this lathe's odyssey is being exhumed. Jansson Machinery Exchange of NY does not ring any bells with me. NYC had a 'used machine tool district'. This was more commonly known by the two major streets that ran thru it: Centre Street and Canal Street. Back in the mid 1960's, thru my college years (graduated in 1972), I would walk the blocks of the used machinery district, looking at used (and some new) machine tools and dreaming of owning my own machine tools. I can recall very nearly all the used and new machine tool dealers' names from that era, and Jansson was not one of them. Jansson may have been the original dealer who sold the lathe to Rodale, which would have predated the whole 'used machinery district' and the dealers in it.

As for being "retired", I recommend it highly. I refer to 'retirement' as a 'figure of speech'. I also say we are 'only as old as we let ourselves get'. Sure, our bodies may develop various ailments and parts may wear out (such as joints), but if we adjust to the condition of our bodies, we keep going and may actually strengthen and gain in many areas. Another of my beliefs is that, if a person has a trade or profession they enjoyed 'practicing' , they can take it into 'retirement' in some new form. I put 'practicing' in quotation marks, wondering how long a person has to practice to be good at what they are doing. Kind of like the old cliche where a person asks directions on the streets of NY City: "How do I get to Carnegie Hall ?". He gets the answer from the person he'd asked: "Practice, Practice, Practice". A person may not be thrilled with the actual working environment of their regular employment, but may well enjoy the actual profession or trade they specialize in. Into retirement, they can pick and choose what work they take on, and how they go about it. Retirement is a time to practice the work we love doing, and in the process, exercise our minds and bodies. We can use 'retirement' as a time to give back to society, by teaching, donating our time, mentoring, or similar. It's also a time when we get to do the projects we dreamed of in odd moments during the years of regular employment.

I've been 'retired for nine (9) years from regular employment. However, when asked what I do to pass time in 'retirement', my answer is: "Same thing I did when I was 'working'- engineering, machine work, welding inspection." The difference is these activities happen on my terms, rather than a formal employer's terms. Get a snowy winter morning and I can roll over in bed and not have to get up at 0430 to plow snow before breakfast and then mushing over 32 miles of backroads to be into work at the powerplant by 0645. Or, if I get a potential client for engineering work who rubs me the wrong way or has a job I have a bad feeling about, I can decline to take it on. On the other hand, if a young couple without two nickels to rub together needs a set of foundation and septic system plans designed and drawn up by me as Professional Engineer, I will charge them nothing more than a handshake and the goodwill. If they want to put some cordwood in my pickup, that is more than I would ask of them. If a local machine shop calls me to teach a young person or two the basics of the machinist trade, or I am asked to put together a course for the local community college on some engineering or machine-shop related subject, I do it 'pro bono' (for free) and enjoy passing along the knowledge and skills. That is the beauty of 'retirement'.

In "retirement", my own home machine shop has grown by a quantum leap. It's fine for what work I do. If I need heavier or different machining capability, I can use the machine tools in a couple of the local shops. It's a very sweet time of my life, and while some people complain about getting old (or try to deny or negate the effects of the years on their bodies), I find that going with it and working with it makes for a really nice life. It's a time to reflect, a time to enjoy what we've hopefully learned over our younger and working portions of our lives, and a time to share and give back. In so doing, we exercise our minds and bodies as well as getting out and about amongst other people, rather than becoming a fussy, reclusive 'retiree' whose biggest worry is which restaurant to go to for the 'earlybird special'.

 

[dundeeshopnut]

The tale of this lathe's odyssey is being exhumed. Jansson Machinery Exchange of NY does not ring any bells with me. NYC had a 'used machine tool district'. This was more commonly known by the two major streets that ran thru it: Centre Street and Canal Street. Back in the mid 1960's, thru my college years (graduated in 1972), I would walk the blocks of the used machinery district, looking at used (and some new) machine tools and dreaming of owning my own machine tools. I can recall very nearly all the used and new machine tool dealers' names from that era, and Jansson was not one of them. Jansson may have been the original dealer who sold the lathe to Rodale, which would have predated the whole 'used machinery district' and the dealers in it.

As for being "retired", I recommend it highly. I refer to 'retirement' as a 'figure of speech'. I also say we are 'only as old as we let ourselves get'. Sure, our bodies may develop various ailments and parts may wear out (such as joints), but if we adjust to the condition of our bodies, we keep going and may actually strengthen and gain in many areas. Another of my beliefs is that, if a person has a trade or profession they enjoyed 'practicing' , they can take it into 'retirement' in some new form. I put 'practicing' in quotation marks, wondering how long a person has to practice to be good at what they are doing. Kind of like the old cliche where a person asks directions on the streets of NY City: "How do I get to Carnegie Hall ?". He gets the answer from the person he'd asked: "Practice, Practice, Practice". A person may not be thrilled with the actual working environment of their regular employment, but may well enjoy the actual profession or trade they specialize in. Into retirement, they can pick and choose what work they take on, and how they go about it. Retirement is a time to practice the work we love doing, and in the process, exercise our minds and bodies. We can use 'retirement' as a time to give back to society, by teaching, donating our time, mentoring, or similar. It's also a time when we get to do the projects we dreamed of in odd moments during the years of regular employment.

I've been 'retired for nine (9) years from regular employment. However, when asked what I do to pass time in 'retirement', my answer is: "Same thing I did when I was 'working'- engineering, machine work, welding inspection." The difference is these activities happen on my terms, rather than a formal employer's terms. Get a snowy winter morning and I can roll over in bed and not have to get up at 0430 to plow snow before breakfast and then mushing over 32 miles of backroads to be into work at the powerplant by 0645. Or, if I get a potential client for engineering work who rubs me the wrong way or has a job I have a bad feeling about, I can decline to take it on. On the other hand, if a young couple without two nickels to rub together needs a set of foundation and septic system plans designed and drawn up by me as Professional Engineer, I will charge them nothing more than a handshake and the goodwill. If they want to put some cordwood in my pickup, that is more than I would ask of them. If a local machine shop calls me to teach a young person or two the basics of the machinist trade, or I am asked to put together a course for the local community college on some engineering or machine-shop related subject, I do it 'pro bono' (for free) and enjoy passing along the knowledge and skills. That is the beauty of 'retirement'.

In "retirement", my own home machine shop has grown by a quantum leap. It's fine for what work I do. If I need heavier or different machining capability, I can use the machine tools in a couple of the local shops. It's a very sweet time of my life, and while some people complain about getting old (or try to deny or negate the effects of the years on their bodies), I find that going with it and working with it makes for a really nice life. It's a time to reflect, a time to enjoy what we've hopefully learned over our younger and working portions of our lives, and a time to share and give back. In so doing, we exercise our minds and bodies as well as getting out and about amongst other people, rather than becoming a fussy, reclusive 'retiree' whose biggest worry is which restaurant to go to for the 'earlybird special'.

Well sir, I for one thank you for NOT becoming a curmudgeon or miserable "Get off my lawn" old fart. I enjoy your stories and learn something potentially useful from nearly every one. Real engineers [that don't need a damm computer to design an machine or system] seem to be a dying breed. Judging from a lot of the junk being "engineered" today I'd venture there is only a couple of you guys left.

 

[hendeyman]

rlsmith58:

All of the surviving drawings for your lathe are either on hardcopies or microfilm, which we are slowly digitizing. From the pictures you posted, it would appear that your Headstock is in need of a Cone Pulley and the Apron could use a Cam and
two Half-Nuts. I am sure that as you work on your lathe you will find more damaged or missing parts, I should be able to
supply you with drawings for these parts. Your lathe features the recently introduced Taper Headstock Bearings (1898) that
became a standard Hendey feature of the Cone Head models for the next forty years. Now for the bad news.

SERVICE POLICY
After December 31, 1945 we shall no longer make any repair parts for Hendey lathes which do not have the TIE BAR
headstock. Common parts such as centers, collets, etc. may, however, be furnished at our discretion (per F.J. McCardy,
General Sales Manager, December 28, 1945). (I will do what I can to bend the rules, but this is a tough company
to work for and I don't want to risk loosing my job)

Hendeyman

 

[rlsmith58]

rlsmith58:

All of the surviving drawings for your lathe are either on hardcopies or microfilm, which we are slowly digitizing. From the pictures you posted, it would appear that your Headstock is in need of a Cone Pulley and the Apron could use a Cam and
two Half-Nuts. I am sure that as you work on your lathe you will find more damaged or missing parts, I should be able to
supply you with drawings for these parts. Your lathe features the recently introduced Taper Headstock Bearings (1898) that
became a standard Hendey feature of the Cone Head models for the next forty years. Now for the bad news.

SERVICE POLICY
After December 31, 1945 we shall no longer make any repair parts for Hendey lathes which do not have the TIE BAR
headstock. Common parts such as centers, collets, etc. may, however, be furnished at our discretion (per F.J. McCardy,
General Sales Manager, December 28, 1945). (I will do what I can to bend the rules, but this is a tough company
to work for and I don't want to risk loosing my job)

Hendeyman

I'm starting with the basics. I've begun by removing all of the "extra" parts that were added (transmission, motor, motor/transmission mounts, ...). I'm going to clean her up good and give a fresh coat of paint (haven't decided on a color yet). As I assemble her back is when I'll start sourcing parts. Hard part is I'm not sure what she should look like, though with your help and that of the others on PM I'm getting a better understanding. I had thought of using a VFD to control speed (in lieu of replacing pulleys), mostly because of cost and availability. Also, the VFD helps with the need to replace the 3 phase motor I got with her. One thing I didn't like with the v-belts is having to pull the spindle to replace the belts(not a problem with the original flat belts). Thought of somehow driving her from the backside of the spindle. I'm torn with restoring her to her original design or just getting her functioning again. I've been looking for the lever for the change gear, but haven't had luck for this size lathe. I read somewhere that parts were not really interchangeable, either from different sizes and I'm wondering even from different model years. Anyway, I seem to be going on a bit here. Any access to information you can provide is greatly appreciated. In a previous life I did alot of CAD work both 2D and 3D, so access to drawings would be perfect. Thank you in advance.
Bob

 

[rlsmith58]

Lineshaft "cone heads" in general started getting factory-OEM option "independent motor" power as early as 1880 or so. Such rigs as we find NOW can be either of factory OEM or third-party conversion.

Most are reasonably well-thought-out, and NOT so easy to improve upon. Besides - even if imperfect, they were WELL-PROVEN in long years of actual use!

So keep all the parts. You may use most of them, even if not all.


Fabricating one that WORKS - no matter it looks odd - could be a worthwhile temporary patch - whilst seeking an OEM one from a part-out? Took me many. many years to acquire the missing rear covers for one of my 10EE. But "eventually" that came good.

A DIY that "looks original" is more work, but it can be done... later.... if No Joy on an OEM one.

Thanks, I'll keep everything just in case, but hope for the best. I know I'll have to make some of the parts she needs, but I'm a bit shy on talent. My machinist days were 30-40 years ago and limited then. With time and practice I hope to improve.

 

[M.B. Naegle]

Machining new flat pulleys (if you can't find them from a parted out machine) would be a chore, but they do offer practical function and have a big effect on the overall "look" of the machine. I've got a couple mills I'm reproducing them for and my plan is to weld them out of an assortment of flat steel discs and pipe sections, then machine them to size. At least for the lower driven pulleys as they would benefit from the mass of an all steel pulley. I also have a lathe that I want to put back to being a line-shaft driven lathe, but was missing the upper pulley. I've made a replacement for it out of hard maple as extra weight overhead isn't as important.

If you go with a VFD drive instead of the gear-box, I would advise to keep an intermediate shaft between the motor and the headstock. You need to get the highest speed the motor can put out (full 60Hz from the VFD), which is typically around 1725RPM, at least halved before it gets to the headstock bearings. It was also designed to work with more torque than a direct drive motor can put out. Long term, adding the cone pulleys to the set up would help as well, as having a mechanical low and high speed offers more torque variation than typically comes out of a VFD, and gives your VFD even more range.

 

[johnoder]

Neat rear drive Hendey offered in the later twenties. There was a geared reduction between motor belt and cone pulley.

 

[rlsmith58]

Neat rear drive Hendey offered in the later twenties. There was a geared reduction between motor belt and cone pulley.

I like the looks of that. Need to make some sort of cover to keep pulleys and motor from getting full of gunk but nice concept. Any idea on the gear reduction ratios? Also, does anyone know the end rpm at the spindle? I have a 5 hp Dayton motor that came with the lathe, think it runs at 1725 rpm. Been looking at modern lathes, seem to run up to 2000 rpm at the spindle.

 

[johnoder]

Hendeymans Thread on Hendey speeds.

Hendey Cone Head Spindle Speeds

One of the most common questions that is posted regarding Hendey Cone Head lathes is: "What is the proper spindle speed for a particular size lathe". This information, for some unknown reason, was not included in the operator's manual. For some years this information was published in the Hendey...

www.practicalmachinist.com

Slow mostly since that was then.
The drive I posted above would have had one fixed reduction gear that enabled the rear cone pulley to copy the speeds a normal over head drive Hendey would have had. In other words, that rear cone on the drive I posted above would have turned at one or the other COUNTER SHAFT speeds published in the various catalogs. Note that Hendeymans thread above states counter shaft speeds. I'll suppose your older Hendey may have run slower

 

[rlsmith58]

Don't even think about higher RPM than OEM.

The bearings weren't designed for that back when "HCS" (High Carbon Steel) tooling was still standard and "HSS" (High Speed Steel) no harder nor sharper, just longer-lasting per re-grind.

Sharp HSS tools, patience, grow yer skills at it, and she'll move PLENTY of metal at "OEM RPM" ranges.

Not exactly a "virgin" at this late stage of a new century, your valiant Hendey already HAS DONE, after all!

Don't try to "fix" what ain't broken.

Thanks, not really trying to fix or change anything, but I looking for a baseline. I was just a production machinist back in the day and got my speeds and feeds from a machinery handbook. When it comes to certain machining knowledge that seems obvious to a weathered machinist, I have to ask questions or look it up. Tools and materials have changed through the years and I've been away from it quite a while. I realize she was designed to run a certain way and I don't want to break her.

 

[rlsmith58]

As the economy went "back in the day" those of us actually DOING the work couldn't spare the coin to OWN one! By the time we had the spare scratch for even a used copy, we no longer needed it!


The NICE thing about we chick'ns restoring "Old Iron" is that - in my case - even sore tired 1940's lathes are nicer if not also newer - than the raggedy-ass trash of "company" lathes and mills we had to actually earn our crust on, all sweating-weary shift long.

Other "company" machine-tools were taken care of as if they were solid gold.

Around 1961 I asked my mentor "how old" the lathe I was put on @ 88 cents an hour was.

"I've been here 23 years. It was old when I got here."

There is one UNMISTAKABLE feature. The "tie bar". So "in due course" I found an answer.

War One-era Hendey tie-bar. Bought used. 1923.

Still there, 1970 when I went back in a 3-piece suit as an Executive. Probably still running, somewhere, in a former employee's grandkid's basement?

Dunno if a tie-bar is truly immortal or not.

But it surely outlasts whatever is in SECOND place.

I will tell you, I don't know how well this lathe was taken care of or how much work has been done on it in 121 years, but the bearings still feel as tight and smooth as new ones and probably better than many of the new ones made today!

 

[dundeeshopnut]

I will tell you, I don't know how well this lathe was taken care of or how much work has been done on it in 121 years, but the bearings still feel as tight and smooth as new ones and probably better than many of the new ones made today!

Do check however, that the oil rings are free and doing their job bringing up oil, especially before belting it to power.

 

[rlsmith58]

Do check however, that the oil rings are free and doing their job bringing up oil, especially before belting it to power.

I'm a ways away from that, but I definitely will. Thanks.

 

[hendeyman]

rismith58:

In the Hendey information I mailed to you yesterday, you will find Countershaft speeds, Driving Pulley and Cone Pulley sizes.
From these you will be able to figure the Spindle speeds. The Countershaft has one Cone Pulley and two Driving Pulleys, both
10 inches in diameter. Two different sizes of pulleys were on the Head Shaft (Main Shaft) and by engaging a clutch on the
Countershaft it would run at two different speeds. You will note that three different Countershaft speeds are listed, depending
on the type of material you were planning on machining. The only time a Countershaft was supplied with a third Driving Pulley
was if your lathe was equipped with a Relieving Attachment, which drove the spindle at a very slow speed to allow the Cam to
operate properly. With this arrangement, and using the Back Gear, you will either have 16 or 27 Spindle speeds, depending
on how your lathe equipped. Keep in mind that some of these independent motor drive units don't always allow for the Counter
shaft Cone Pulley to operate at two different speeds, cheating you of the ability to operate your lathe with the most possible speed ranges. Just something to think about while you are planning your restoration.

Hendeyman