1940 Monarch 10ee rehab questions

[rimcanyon]

I’ve never seen the collet rack your machine has. Every one I am familiar with for the Sundstrand machines is mounted flush with the door, and has either one, two or three layers. Yours looks like it is for 2J Collets, which I have also never seen before. Very cool. The 2J collets are also corroborated by the build sheet, which lists a 1 ¼” collet being supplied (5C collets max out at 1 1/16”).

I’ve also never seen the device on the end of the saddle.

Your tailstock is missing both oil plugs and the dauber, but it is a later design than the one mine came with (on mine the dauber is located towards the front of the

The carriage micrometer stop for a Sundstrand lathe is a different design than the stops used by later machines. I will see if I can find a photo.

 

[rke[pler]

I'm pretty sure that doesn't have anything to do with the carriage stop. Here's a shot from the 1939 brochure that has the micrometer attachment:

 

[van123d]

I’ve never seen the collet rack your machine has. Every one I am familiar with for the Sundstrand machines is mounted flush with the door, and has either one, two or three layers. Yours looks like it is for 2J Collets, which I have also never seen before. Very cool. The 2J collets are also corroborated by the build sheet, which lists a 1 ¼” collet being supplied (5C collets max out at 1 1/16”)

I already had suspicions this one was home made and not original. The construction just doesn’t look up to the same standard as the rest of the mill, welds are not great, and the wood top surface damage seems more like it was chipped out from poor drilling vs just long term use.

I’ve also never seen the device on the end of the saddle.

Strange. That I thought did look original.

Your tailstock is missing both oil plugs and the dauber, but it is a later design than the one mine came with (on mine the dauber is located towards the front of the

I had to look up the purpose of the dauber. I never knew about this and have no need for one yet now I must have one to replace the missing one.

Here's a shot from the 1939 brochure that has the micrometer attachment:

Thank you. Does anyone have a photo of the dovetail that this would have mounted to? Or know how this mounts to the carriage? Does this mount in the same two offset screw holes the part in my photo use? Or did a small dovetail mount using these holes that the micrometer stop then attach to?

Thanks everyone. There are some oddities to these older 10EEs that are not as well documented it seems but slowly I am finding answers to what I have and what I am missing.

 

[rke[pler]

Thank you. Does anyone have a photo of the dovetail that this would have mounted to? Or know how this mounts to the carriage? Does this mount in the same two offset screw holes the part in my photo use? Or did a small dovetail mount using these holes that the micrometer stop then attach to?

So far as i can tell there is no dovetail mount on that model, not with the early models, anyway. There is a picture in the '39 brochure that shows the end of the saddle and it's clean. Best guess the indicator mounts to the saddle using the big knob on top.

It's possible the brochure shows 2 different lathes and the original mount is using a dovetail but it just doesn't look like it.

 

[rimcanyon]

Here are some photos that should asnswer the question:

 

[rimcanyon]

More photos:

 

[rimcanyon]

Sundstrand operators manual:

 

[rimcanyon]

Sundstrand operators manual cont.

 

[rimcanyon]

Sundstrand operators manual cont.

 

[rimcanyon]

Sundstrand operators manual cont.

 

[rimcanyon]

Sundstrand operators manual cont.

 

[rimcanyon]

Sundstrand operators manual, final installment:

 

[rimcanyon]

Regarding the taper attachment for a Sundstrand machine: it is different from the later round dial/square dial model, and it is not much use to someone who has a later machine. There was a thread recently about taper attachments where someone described refurbishing one, and mentioned that he had a 1940 TA. You might want to find that post and contact him, maybe you can make a deal.

Also, I took another look at your collet rack, and I am still of the opinion that it is original.

 

[Cal Haines]

Wow! Thanks for posting all that Dave! I didn't know that a Sundstrand 10EE manual existed. Even after 20 years of studying 10EEs, it's clear that I have a lot more to learn . . .

It's really neat that you have a machine with so much original tooling! Do you have an original tooling cabinet for it as well?

Could you please post some overall photos of the machine and of the drive?

Here's the thread with a Sundstrand-era taper attachment alongside the later version (1941 and beyond):

Round dial / square dial Taper Attachment photos and differences.

I have been piecing together a taper attachment for a while now, and I wanted to provide some photos and measurements to those seeking info about it. I see very few differences overall, and looks like only mounting hole spacing would keep you from using one from a different style machine. Here...

www.practicalmachinist.com

 

[rimcanyon]

My copy of the Sundstrand operators manual is completely saturated with oil, so it doesn't copy well and the printing on the back side of the pages shows through. The manual was sitting in the bottom of the tooling compartment for its transatlantic journey prior to my purchase from Anchor Machinery in Port Orford 30 years ago. As I mentioned above, I think Russ has a copy on his DVD. Russ, if you are reading this could you check?

Cal, there is not a lot of room in my shop to get front-on photos of the machine. I'll see what I can do.

Van, if you look carefully at the photos above you will see that some of the machine was repainted with Krylon Dark Machinery Grey. Some of it is original: the tailstock, the apron, one of the bed stops and both of the clamshell indicator holders. A few years ago I scraped all the green paint off the machine using a carbide scraper. The green paint sheared off easily and the orignal paint was still intact. I decided to repaint the parts of the machine that needed it the most, but left the other parts as is.

 

[van123d]

Thank you so much for posting the manual!
I will start reading through it shortly.

What makes you think it is the original collet rack? Compared to the one on your machine it just doesn’t look like the same build quality to me. I am interested what you see that makes you think it could be original. Have you seen an alternate one built similarly?

@Cal Haines if there are any Sundstrand drive photos you would like let me know. My drive is removed right now so it’s easy to get photos.


The carriage stop is still a mystery to me though. Yours attaches with the dovetail that is screwed onto the carriage. Mine does not have that dovetail block or a screw hole where it could have gone. On one side there are three holes, in a slightly shifted location, top and bottom holes are threaded. The other side of the carriage there are no holes at all.


I have been thinking about trying to remove the green paint as well. The degreaser I am using seems to soften it some but doesn’t touch the grey paint. Been curious if I can find something that would dissolve the green but leave the grey. I have noticed that some spots there is a cream coloured paint under the green, mainly the inner surfaces of the bed and the headstock. Not sure if there is grey under that cream? Or if the lathe was originally two tone? I haven’t decided if I want to tackle that or not yet.

Does anyone know if the lens and bezel for the tachometer are removable from the front of the machine? Or do I need to go from the inside to remove the tachometer first before I can remove the lens? I would like to start trying to find a replacement so I will need to figure out how that comes out soon.

 

[rke[pler]

My copy of the Sundstrand operators manual is completely saturated with oil, so it doesn't copy well and the printing on the back side of the pages shows through. The manual was sitting in the bottom of the tooling compartment for its transatlantic journey prior to my purchase from Anchor Machinery in Port Orford 30 years ago. As I mentioned above, I think Russ has a copy on his DVD. Russ, if you are reading this could you check?

I put the manual up at

http://www.kepler-eng.com/images/hyd_manual.pdf

(Be patient, I'm on a slow DSL)

 

[rke[pler]

Here are some photos that should asnswer the question:View attachment 407331

That's a different indicator holder than the 1939 brochure showed. I wonder if the one in the brochure was some sort of prototype?

I like the right hand one, too. I planned on making one but never got to the point of having some cast.

 

[rimcanyon]

What makes you think it is the original collet rack? Compared to the one on your machine it just doesn’t look like the same build quality to me. I am interested what you see that makes you think it could be original. Have you seen an alternate one built similarly?


The carriage stop is still a mystery to me though. Yours attaches with the dovetail that is screwed onto the carriage. Mine does not have that dovetail block or a screw hole where it could have gone. On one side there are three holes, in a slightly shifted location, top and bottom holes are threaded. The other side of the carriage there are no holes at all.

Does anyone know if the lens and bezel for the tachometer are removable from the front of the machine? Or do I need to go from the inside to remove the tachometer first before I can remove the lens? I would like to start trying to find a replacement so I will need to figure out how that comes out soon.

I guess we won't know for sure until someone else with a Sundstrand machine that was delivered with 2J collets comes along, but the way it was made does not look amateur to me. The tray is heavy gauge steel with the corners bent up and welded, and the holes in the tray and plywood are nicely bored. The paint looks like it matches the rest of the machine. I think all you need to do to restore it is make a new plywood insert. Or just turn the plywood over.

The three holes for the dovetail mount are the same as mine, except the bottom hole is not threaded on mine. The two corner holes are for locating pins.

The bezel is held on by a pair of screws, one on each side. To remove the tach, you need to remove a pair of nuts inside the headstock casting, then you can use the studs to lever it out, its a tight fit.

 

[van123d]

Well just to provide an update on where I am at. As I started this thread as a rehab and not a restoration my goal is to avoid a big project. I don't want to tear it all apart and repaint it etc. I just want to clean it up, inspect and replace anything that needs to be replaced and use it for a while with the goal of eventually doing a tear down and rebuild and repaint.

So as I am cleaning it up I am noticing a lot of the green paint flaking off, so I decide to scrape off the remainder of the green paint and go back to the original grey paint underneath which appears in good shape. After scraping off the green there are areas that will need to be repainted. Repainting is going to be an issue with the seeping hydraulic oil so I will need to drain and fix those leaks first, well I cant get the exact right colour so I guess the whole thing is getting a coat of paint, and so on until I am here:



I still have a long way of scraping/sanding/filling to go before paint but it is moving along. I think I have addressed all of the leaks that I know of with the exception of one that I could use some advice on.



The outer bearing on the feed shaft is a loose fit in the housing, spinning the shaft the outer race spins. Obviously oil is leaking around this bearing onto the flat belt pully and from there onto everything else. I will replace this bearing but I suspect the housing is the more likely worn part vs the hardened bearing race. Is there a missing oil seal that should be before this bearing? or does anyone have a recommendation for a sealant that could be used between the two surfaces to prevent the oil leaking?

Any suggestions on how to attack this?