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1959 10K spindle bearing adjustment/shims

Anatol

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Location
Los Angeles
I tore down and reassembled my headstock. removed, cleaned and replaced shims - two in the front, 3 in the back including a very thin one (3 thou? - I didn't measure it). When I screwed the cap screws back down hand tight, spindle locked. So io can't put 20lbs on it. . Clearance with shims is tight at both ends, so - I need more shims, right? They're a pretty finicky shape, with notches for the v-groove... , does anyone sell them?
thx
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
I'm assuming you removed and installed the bearing expanders correct, and adjusted there without mashing the bearing, which can happen.

Under normal circumstances I'd be wanting to check and adjust anyway. But if all the same stuff that came out, went back in. . . Then I'd expect it to spin, albeit needing adjustment.

If it does need shims, I can usually cut up to .010" myself with a pair of decent scizzors.

I'd also be bringing up the end thrust adjustment up close. If you happen to have high spots or lines on spindle, they would have been in dug trenches of bearing. So If a high spot is now up on a unwore spot of bearing, could be tight till end thrust is adjusted.
 

Anatol

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Location
Los Angeles
Hi
thanks for quick response.
>I'm assuming you removed and installed the bearing expanders correct, and adjusted there without mashing the bearing, which can happen.
I'm *assuming* that's there case too.
They were cleaned and went back in as the came out. How can they mash the bearing? I figures the screws needed to be fairly tight, given the spring washers.(Nothing crazy, just a good firm screwdriver-tight)
> I'd also be bringing up the end thrust adjustment up close.
with the tail end threaded collar? Yes, I pulled it up to .005 gap at the nose flange, as specified.
> If you happen to have high spots or lines on spindle,
Spindle looked suprisingly good - I'll post a pic when I upload my pics.
>If it does need shims,
it 'needs shims' if cranking down the big cap screws causes the spindle to be named - right?
What would cause that -worn bearings I guess.
Could I have caused it, or was it just that the PO had let it get out of spec?
>I can usually cut up to .010" myself with a pair of decent scizzors.
sure - I've got some fine snips, that should work.
thx
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
If the expanders are not placed in correct it can pinch or distort the bearing, sometimes bending it.

On end thrust, the nose flange I think you mean is something of a chip guard to keep fine debris from getting into the bearing. If that, I might take that to like .002". But that does not set thrust itself. Those are sort of a press fit on spindle, but can usually be tapped on further with a hammer and a brass punch or something. Maybe slip a feeler gauge on each side to keep from knocking it on too far. But do this after actual thrust is set, as it could potentially affect the real thrust reading.

Thrust is set with the left end threaded collar you mentioned. And is determined by that nut, plus which ever thrust washer between that nut and left end bearing cap. The other side of thrust is the actual thrust bearing, which is on the other side of the same bearing cap. Usually a 3 piece thrust bearing. That thrust bearing takes the load as tool tip pushes toward chuck during normal operation.

To check and set it, put a dial indicator chuck side on spindle, pointing directly into chuck/spindle. This can be set close. I like inside of .001" to about .0005". Use big screw drivers, or a pry bar to push spindle back and forth.

With bearing caps on, and down, will the spindle spin if the bolts are only spun in by hand, or if you crack the bolts loose ?
 
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Anatol

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Location
Los Angeles
Thanks again -
I won't get to this for a while now (traveling) but when I do, I intend to make new shims to permit locking down of the cap screws that clamp the bearings. My understanding that this clearance is critical - to permit an oil film but no rattle/slop. That is a tiny clearance - is there a rule of thumb? Like "tighten to lock the spindle, then back off 1/4 turn"?
re longitudinal 'thrust' clearance, you said:
put a dial indicator chuck side on spindle, pointing directly into chuck/spindle. This can be set close. I like inside of .001" to about .0005". Use big screw drivers, or a pry bar to push spindle back and forth.
So, shaft of DI parallel with spindle?
By "back and forth" you mean towards the thrust bearing I guess. Do you mean push the spindle nose? With a bar down between the ways... and some arrangement of wooden blocks etc?
thx
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
By "back and forth" you mean towards the thrust bearing I guess. Do you mean push the spindle nose? With a bar down between the ways... and some arrangement of wooden blocks etc?
thx
Using a block of wood is a good idea. And yes you need to move spindle right to left, or let's say toward and away from tail stock to check thrust. I probably would not use the cone pulley on spindle to pry on though, might give you false readings. But anything I can do to move spindle right to left and back again. Putting a chuck on to help with prying is not a terrible idea. Don't pry and hold with all your weight, just sort of clunk it one way, than the other way.

Checking spindle bearings is similar. On chuck side, put a dial indicator at 12 oclock on the chuck. Use a pry bar, and put maybe 30 to 50 lbs of your weight into lifting under the spindle. Actual spec is .0007" to .001". I personally like .001" to .00125" so I don't heat bearings up.

Oil clearance on any kind of rotating shaft to bearing, gear to shaft, etc is always in the vicinity of .001" pretty much regardless the application. Things closer than .0009" would have my attention as getting tight, where greater than .002" would be loose. Just my general guidelines, things such as rotational speed, type of lube, and load might allow some wiggle room, but less than .001" always has my attention.
 

Anatol

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Location
Los Angeles
> Just my general guidelines,
rules of thumb from someone with experience is always valuable!
> type of lube,
spindle oil, of course :)
 








 
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