1976 FP3, my new mill

[thanvg]

You can try to thread the holes with M8. Start with a regular tap and then end with a broken one you did grind flush Or drill the M6 hole 8.5 mm for a couple of mm Insert a set screw in the threaded M6 hole and then push against that with a M8 bolt
BUT The bore of that ring is a acurate fit with the spindle and rest of the bore So does it run smooth after reinstalled ????

Let us know please
Peter

That's similar to what I had thought Peter, I see no other way.

And, regarding reinstallation, my idea was to install the ring without bolting it down, put the quill in deep in its bore so as to align everything and then tighten the M6 screws.

One should, in principle, be able to pull that ring off in order to, e.g. replace the lock ring I guess....

BR,
Thanos

 

[Peter from Holland]

Like I said
Let us know

I remember doing it a long time ago
But cannot remember the result
Must have been good I think as the machine is no longer here

Peter

 

[eKretz]

Unless my German fails me (wouldn't be surprised, it has been a while) it doesn't say you must not remove #2; it only says #2 doesn't need to be removed in order to remove the quill. For the former I think it would use the verb müßen instead.

 

[AlfaGTA]

The clamp ring is split on the bottom i believe....At the split there is an exposed edge of the cover.
I would try a seal puller like this:

Snap-on Tools USA Cotter Pin Seal Bushing Puller S9094B for sale online | eBay

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The end is narrow, might need a little work, hook engages the edge of the cover piece and you can tap on the right angle end to get the cover moving....
Of course you should bathe the internal areas with your favorite brand of penetrating goop.....
One of my favorites is plain turpentine (Mineral spirits) Does an excellent job an breaking down old varnish and oil residue.
What ever you choose give it some time to work...That cover has been there for a long time...
Cheers Ross

 

[eKretz]

You might also try threading the holes as Peter suggested and using a slide hammer instead of pushing against an interior threaded hole. Probably safer.

 

[thanvg]

...
Must have been good I think as the machine is no longer here
....

Enough proof I guess !

 

[Peter from Holland]

You might also try threading the holes as Peter suggested and using a slide hammer instead of pushing against an interior threaded hole. Probably safer.

Disagree on that one Hammer is a impact Always unsure of its outcome And you push against a setscrew insearted in the hole Did I forget to mention that??

 

[thanvg]

Disagree on that one Hammer is a impact Always unsure of its outcome And you push against a setscrew insearted in the hole Did I forget to mention that??

No, you mentioned this

Slide hammering it out wouldn't work with so little thread engagement

 

[Peter from Holland]

Unless my German fails me (wouldn't be surprised, it has been a while) it doesn't say you must not remove #2; it only says #2 doesn't need to be removed in order to remove the quill. For the former I think it would use the verb müßen instead.

Once more I disagree Darf nicht means may not
I can see why they say that because i think the hole was honed with the ring in place But perhaps on a machine used for 45 years it is not a argument any more

Peter

 

[thanvg]

Unless my German fails me (wouldn't be surprised, it has been a while) it doesn't say you must not remove #2; it only says #2 doesn't need to be removed in order to remove the quill. For the former I think it would use the verb müßen instead.

'darf nicht' is 'not allowed' unless I am mistaken...
And in English:

I think they mean it, hahaha

Or, like I said earlier, they mean 'dont remove it if you want to remove the quill '

BR,
Thanos

 

[thanvg]

The clamp ring is split on the bottom i believe....At the split there is an exposed edge of the cover.
I would try a seal puller like this:

Snap-on Tools USA Cotter Pin Seal Bushing Puller S9094B for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Snap-on Tools USA Cotter Pin Seal Bushing Puller S9094B at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

The end is narrow, might need a little work, hook engages the edge of the cover piece and you can tap on the right angle end to get the cover moving....
Of course you should bathe the internal areas with your favorite brand of penetrating goop.....
One of my favorites is plain turpentine (Mineral spirits) Does an excellent job an breaking down old varnish and oil residue.
What ever you choose give it some time to work...That cover has been there for a long time...
Cheers Ross

Kinda scared Ross to hit anything near those high precision surfaces ...
It's too much already I am trying to pull this ring at all...

BR,
Thanos

Ps: lock clamp is split at its top, where the lock screw bolts on

 

[eKretz]

Disagree on that one Hammer is a impact Always unsure of its outcome And you push against a setscrew insearted in the hole Did I forget to mention that??

No you didn't, but if you are turning the outside screw it can also turn the inner one, leading to possible mashing of the first thread on the smaller hole. Thread engagement is an issue whether you push or pull - the threads are the same length either way - and the pull will be with the thread static, not turning which will help prevent thread damage also. And I don't know about the rest of you but I can use a slide hammer gently also... No need to ram it as hard as you can in one fell swoop. If removal is necessary I'd probably try to rig up two opposite each other and gently pull a small amount at a time that way.

 

[thanvg]

Just came back from the workshop, quick update:
Followed Peter's advice, it all went super smoothly



Details tomorrow, it's super late here...

BR,
Thanos

 

[eKretz]

Oh boy. That looks rough. Hopefully it will go back together well. I share Peter's reservations there.

 

[Peter from Holland]

It sounds stupid but if the quill jams during tightening the bolts I would extend the quill a bit and tap it with a soft hammer if the quill moves heavily
Graduatly tighten it more
Peter

 

[thanvg]

Hi to all,

so, at first, following advice of a good friend, I tried to go conservatively and try to flush the dirt off. After spending 1-2 hrs with spray cans and compressed air I got sick of it, no actual progress. In hindsight, it was apparent why

Dirt was coming out very slowly, fit is tight there.

Here you can also see the hole shape. There is the counterbore for the screw head, there is a 7mm through hole and then there is the M6 thread in the main headstock casting. 7mm cried for M8x1 and that's what it got. No drama, using Peter's advice for the headless screws in the M6 thread (thanks Peter!) and it started coming out without real force, nice, slowly and satisfactorily. M6 headless screws had bottomed down so there was no chance they would be turned by the pushing screws and length was such that the female M6 thread was protected.

Behind the ring cover was the pic seen before with the lock clamp and after removing that one as well:


It is apparent that
- there was no way to flush this thing off from the outside
- there was no way that the lock clamp would work as smoothly as on my FP2 with all that crap in there.

Now it looks a bit better, but still some polishing to do:


And the parts before cleaning:


After cleaning the ring I did a test fit on the quill. It's the same, extremely tight fit as the one between the quill and the main casting bore.

I am pretty confident that, provided the fit, if all is cleaned, smooth and burr free, there is no way this ring can end up misaligned. There couldn't be a better installation guide that the quill itself.
But we'll have to see about that I guess...

BR,
Thanos

PS1. I am not sure if I'll go on and install everything back on or if I am going to wait for the Kluber to arrive in order to do the horizontal before installing it. I've always found it very difficult to install the horizontal quill on these machines (and this one is much heavier than the FP2's) and I would like to avoid doing it twice...

PS2. Can't compare slide hammering something like this out to using nice fine threads as pushers taking all the time you want and going in circles (or criss-cross) in order to do it evenly. You would need 4 slide hammers hanging horizontally from 3-4 mm of thread engagement and magic hands to use them.

 

[eKretz]

Very true. Getting 4 slide hammers (or even two) is much more of a pain in the rear than using pusher screws. Since you mentioned that the seated screws were bottomed out and couldn't go further in that pretty much removes my reservations about that method. Good work. That 3-4 mm of thread engagement is a little iffy, glad that it worked out for you. Before reassembly I might measure the fit between the two. You might find that it would only take a very small amount of heat on the housing to mate the parts easily. Or shrinking of the male part with some LN2.

 

[Peter from Holland]

Very true. Getting 4 slide hammers (or even two) is much more of a pain in the rear than using pusher screws. Since you mentioned that the seated screws were bottomed out and couldn't go further in that pretty much removes my reservations about that method. Good work. That 3-4 mm of thread engagement is a little iffy, glad that it worked out for you. Before reassembly I might measure the fit between the two. You might find that it would only take a very small amount of heat on the housing to mate the parts easily. Or shrinking of the male part with some LN2.

The fit of the part in the housing is not the issue It does not fit that tight IIRC It is the alignment of the bore in that part and the rest of the bore of the quill A couple of 0.001mm makes a difference between smooth and tight

Peter

 

[eKretz]

Ahh, so it is a slip fit on the pilot? I had assumed it was interference. Alignment would be better with a heat or shrink if that were the case, rather than pushing it in. Still might require some gentle persuasion as you mentioned though. Tight alignments are tricky. That's where we get the "At Assembly" notations, heh.

 

[Peter from Holland]

Ahh, so it is a slip fit on the pilot? I had assumed it was interference. Alignment would be better with a heat or shrink if that were the case, rather than pushing it in. Still might require some gentle persuasion as you mentioned though. Tight alignments are tricky. That's where we get the "At Assembly" notations, heh.

It is excentric as you can see The sligtest rotational mistake will make it jam Only the M6 bolts in their 7mm hole align it But perhaps it is not much of a problem
Lets wait and see
Peter