1979 FUS-22 - Deckel Clone needs deep maintenance. Has anyone done it?

[dazz]

Hi
My FUS-22 mill was purchased new from a trade fair (long before the Internet) by a plastics factory for making molds. Sept 1975. I think it is now overdue for some serious maintenance. Nothing appears to be broken or worn out. It basically needs a strip down, clean and fresh oil/grease.
I have the manual but it only covers operator level maintenance.
Has anyone taken a deep dive into one of these machines??
Any guidance would be much appreciated.

The photo/brochure was included in the original quote.

 

[Luke Rickert]

I haven't worked with that machine but for my smaller Schaublin13 an overhead crane was indispensable for safe disassembly. (I did it without it once and will never do that again) You don't need a huge amount of capacity but a good quality 250kg ratcheting chain hoist located above the machine will make a big difference.

I don't think I have ever seen a detailed assembly manual for any machine, I just go slow and careful, never force anything, and take lots of pictures. These machines are usually logical but it can take some time to figure out how it all goes together (or comes apart)

I know we all live in hope of finding that pristine machine, but if a machine has been used for many decades it will have worn parts, that is simply how these things work. You will probably need new nuts and screws, most of the bearings and re-scraping to restore alignment wouldn't be a bad idea. It is all part of the process

Luke

 

[dazz]

Hi
All of my machines are old but have lead a low use life. I buy them that way. I know their life history. No abused ex-training school or worn out production line machines. It takes me years to find them.
Ironically they have all suffered low maintenance, because they haven't done enough work to justify it. Typically oil, seals and belts need replacing. Decades of crud and chips need cleaning away.
I actually enjoy pulling them apart to see how they work. It was like when I was a kid, I used to take clocks apart. Now I know enough to put them back together.

 

[dazz]

Hi
I have started deep maintenance. The grease looks like factory original from the former Soviet Union. It looks more like black ooze than grease.

 

[PDW]

just a note to thank you for posting photos etc as you go. While my machine is in excellent condition who knows - one day I might need to disassemble it and anything you post will be useful then.

I think that somewhere in my archives I have a German manual with circuit diagrams and exploded assembly diagrams if you'd find it useful. Assuming I can find it...

PDW

 

[AlfaGTA]

If you have a factory users manual the first thing i should want to verify is that it was intended to use grease for lubrication.....
Just because someone used the lube fittings to pump it full of grease does not mean that is correct.
Operators often mistake the lube fittings to be intended for use via grease gun (Zerk fitting) .
Same style fittings were also used for application of an oil lube gun.
Almost always slides will get oil, not grease as the oil does a better job of maintaining the slide geometry (won't appreciably change the stack up of gib and slide assembly)
Oil also does abetter job of getting to all the moving elements as it flows ...Grease tends to be more static, and lubes only where it is applied.

We see this mistake (grease) made all the time on manual Deckel mills...

Cheers Ross

 

[dazz]

If you have a factory users manual the first thing i should want to verify is that it was intended to use grease for lubrication.....
Just because someone used the lube fittings to pump it full of grease does not mean that is correct.
Operators often mistake the lube fittings to be intended for use via grease gun (Zerk fitting) .
Same style fittings were also used for application of an oil lube gun.
Almost always slides will get oil, not grease as the oil does a better job of maintaining the slide geometry (won't appreciably change the stack up of gib and slide assembly)
Oil also does abetter job of getting to all the moving elements as it flows ...Grease tends to be more static, and lubes only where it is applied.

We see this mistake (grease) made all the time on manual Deckel mills...

Cheers Ross

I have a copy of the factory manual. It is very light on detail.
It does include a lube diagram, a mixture of oil and grease, same fittings.
I doubt this grease has been changed since it left the factory. All of the grease is exactly the same colour, texture etc. Manual says grease should be changed every 6 months which indicates the low quality.

 

[dazz]

just a note to thank you for posting photos etc as you go. While my machine is in excellent condition who knows - one day I might need to disassemble it and anything you post will be useful then.

I think that somewhere in my archives I have a German manual with circuit diagrams and exploded assembly diagrams if you'd find it useful. Assuming I can find it...

PDW

OK, I will make a point of posting more photos. I need to clean away the grease first.

 

[trevj]

Any chance of at least finding the Parts breakdown for your mill? Anywhere?

I would say that even a bad Google Translation into some of the East European Languages, starting with Romanian, might lead you to a possible source.

Words are great, but pictures are better!

https://obrabiarki.biz/en/technical-manuals/milling-machines/tool-milling-machine-fus-22/ May be a lead, or it may not be...

I see in the search results that you may already have this one, or not...

 

[dazz]

Hi

I only purchase machine tools with a provedence. When I purchased the mill, it came with the original glossy brochure photographs (actual marketing photographs), the dealer's offer, the invoice and a bunch of tooling and accessories purchased with the mill. Notably, it did not come with a manual. I purchased a hardcopy factory manual for the mill, but it is light on content. Definitely no parts list.

Everything I look at or open tells me the grease is 47 years old. So what I am trying to do is take the whole mill apart, find out why it works, then put it back together again. In the middle of that I want to flush out the old grease and all of the swarf so it will still be useful in another 47 years. That is proving to be more difficult than it should be. This mill is designed like those puzzles that need to be put together in a particular order. It is turning into a puzzle to try and figure out what that disassembly order should be.

 

[dazz]

Backlash on the x-axis is adjusted by rotating the donut shaped steel piece with a pin spanner. The slotted screw links the steel piece with the bronze half nut. This is on the right side.
The threaded shaft is removed from the left side.

 

[dazz]

The Z axis threaded shaft is at the base.
The keyed shaft is driven by the motor feed gearbox.
Removing the Z axis table etc requires the threaded shaft to be unwound fully up. That probably hasn't been done since the mill left the factory, so the threaded shaft won't fully unscrew. There is probably hardened grease and swarf in the unused thread.
The red part can't be removed until both shafts are lifted up and clear.

 

[dazz]

The Z-axis mechanics can be lifted up and out by moving things out of the way.

 

[dazz]

Looking at the x-axis from the left side. You probably can't tell but halfway down this bearing housing is a channel full of old grease. This bushing is keyed to a bevel gear that is driven by the motor driven x-feed.

 

[PDW]

You're making me feel bad now, wondering what the state of mine is WRT the bits I can't see...

Incidentally I found the manual - it's a big bunch of jpegs that an occasional poster/member here sent me some years back - and I thank him for it.

If you want a copy then send me a PM or something and eventually you'll get them. I've got my boat on the hard for upgrades & maintenance at the moment so am a bit preoccupied...

PDW

 

[dazz]

Hi
My manual is a hard cover bound book. I am guessing we have the same manual. I will pm you anyway. Maybe just start with the title page to see if they match.
The more I look at the mill, the less I think pulling it apart is feasible. There are so many things that need to be done in sequence. The risk is that I can't remove an item.
I am now looking at simply using a lot of kerosene to flush out the grease. The grease I can see and wipe away is harmless. The grease in the bearings and between surfaces is the stuff that I really want to get out.
Mechanically the mill is in good condition. It will easily be able to run another 47 years. I am thinking if I can change 90% grease, that will be more than sufficient.

Changing the oil will be much easier to deal with.

 

[dazz]

Hi
I made a simple pin spanner from scraps to adjust the backlash on the x-axis .
The pins were turned on the end of M6 screws. The pins are 0.5mm eccentric to allow for precise adjustment of the distance between the pins.
The screw heads allow a bar to apply torque.

The split nut can be removed.

 

[dazz]

I am finding grease in oil lines drilled into the cast iron.
I am removing the Zirk fittings and blasting out the grease with compressed air. The removes about 90% grease. I expect the remaining 10% will dissolve into the fresh oil as time goes by.

I have read that clearing out the grease from oil lines requires full disassembly. Compressed air is providing satisfactory results.

 

[dazz]

Just a view under the cover of the gear shift that controls the Z and X axis power feed engagement.

This was before I touched the grease. I doubt this cover has been removed for 47 years. I think the grease looks more like slightly processed crude oil.

 

[Alan]

dazz, whoever looked after your machine must have also looked after my FP1 as it was packed with grease instead of using oil.
In your post 4 photo 2 the way valley / track is almost certainly for oil and not grease as others have indicated. At least on the FP1 some galleries have felt restrictor's to ensure oil is evenly distributed, if these get grease in / block them, then removal / replacement is really the best option, no amount of flushing will cure.
As you have already mentioned grease goes hard over time, this would tend to indicate a full strip and clean would be the best option, if as you say the machine shows little sign of wear. All the best with it, Alan.