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1997 dmu50v another day another problem

S&B Precision

Plastic
Joined
Feb 5, 2021
Hi all,
So I got this 1997 Deckel Maho dmu50v last month, and I only just now got it to start. It took so long because the pendant RCU (mpg or handle) wasn't plugged in. Also the estop was twisted up, and my twist was just one too many . But last night, I got it started, reference returned, and levelled. I also decided it would be wise to run the spindle for about 2 hours to break it in proper, starting at 500rpm and getting it up eventually to 6k. I also jogged the axes around to check for any rough noises. I made the mistake of doing the same with the pendant (or mpg or handle) because, you know...I wanted to make sure it worked. It did for x, y and z, but for the one labeled 'IV' it alarmed out:
  • C68 missing motor current
  • C50 setpoint updat too fast
  • I05 Estop from machine tool
  • E24 No axes movement allowed
So, ok, I shut the machine down, restart it, clear the control, and do a reference return cycle, and it moved about 1/4" and then the same alarms came up. I shut the machine down again, restart, but this time it won't clear the alarms, and I go home to sleep :cryin:.
On the control panel, 4 is the c-axis, so I assumed 'IV' was also the C, and I did not pay attention to the direction I went. This pendant is also not the original, and I'm hoping the IV was wired to the b axis and I over-travelled it, and that is what needs to be fixed.
This morning, I am fresh, and I'm hopeful. but now the alarms are different:
  • O23 MC data out of range
  • E60 Ready signal axes low
  • I05 Emergency stop from machine tool
  • E01 Lubrication pressure switch low
After an hour of basically documenting everything and typing this up to you and technicians I know, I went ahead and tried a control clear, and the number of alarms went down to just I05 and O23, MC data out of range. Please tell me this is an over-travel alarm and how do I get out of it?
Thank you so much for reading my book, and I am grateful for any help.
Shawn
 

S&B Precision

Plastic
Joined
Feb 5, 2021
Hi all,
It was overtravel on the B-axis, and I was able to successfully back it off.
I keep getting the C68: "missing motor current" and C50: "Setpoint update too fast" alarms randomly. Sometimes during axis motion, sometimes during reference return, other times when it is just sitting there while I am reading the manual. Interestingly, sometimes it only throws the C50 alarm. I can't figure them out or find any reference to them.
The procedure to back off the limit switch was not too clear or intuitive, so I thought I would outline it here. Some steps might not be necessary, like being in setup mode to keep the door open, or starting it in normal mode. But it is what worked for me.
  1. estop engaged, door closed, power off, normal operation mode(key turned to the 0)
  2. in the electrical cabinet, center top, there is a switch labeled 7s2. wedge this open. I used a flat eyeglass repair screwdriver
  3. switch 19s2 on as well (diagnostic mode). this does not require wedging.
  4. main power on, wait for boot up
  5. disengage the estop, clear and on simultaneously to initialize interface
  6. turn the feed rate down
  7. switch to setup mode (key to the hand, operation mode 2, yellow box b2 highlighted)
  8. unlock the door with the door I soft key
  9. open the door to better monitor the axis you're backing off.
  10. while pressing the enable key (button near the tool release switch, front left of the control unit) use the jog keys to slowly back off the limit switch
  11. close the door, engage the estop, set back to normal operation mode, turn off the main power
  12. remove the wedge for 7s2, and switch off 19s2
  13. power back on as usual
Hope this helps,
Shawn
 

Kees

Hot Rolled
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Location
Netherlands
I am not sure about the control and the drives on your machine but it looks you have a Millplus with Siemens modules.
I have been told C50 is most likely caused by a defect motor or Siemens drive. Start first with swopping the Heidenhain SADP or DDC interface cards, those are in the Siemens module. I don't think it will help but it is an easy check. You can try to find a cheap Siemens replacement on Ebay, or try to find a local specialist to check the motor/Siemens drive.
I think C68 is caused by the C50 error.
 

S&B Precision

Plastic
Joined
Feb 5, 2021
is the 24v p/s giving good voltage?
I will get a multimeter and check that.

I am not sure about the control and the drives on your machine but it looks you have a Millplus with Siemens modules.
I have been told C50 is most likely caused by a defect motor or Siemens drive. Start first with swopping the Heidenhain SADP or DDC interface cards, those are in the Siemens module. I don't think it will help but it is an easy check. You can try to find a cheap Siemens replacement on Ebay, or try to find a local specialist to check the motor/Siemens drive.
I think C68 is caused by the C50 error.
I agree that C50 is the main cause and leads to a C68 most of the time. It is a millplus with siemens modules. When you say swap the SADP cards, do you mean switching those big encyclopedia sized modules around? Or would I be able to get away with swapping just the cables labeled 12a1,14a1 (which i think are the B and C axes)?
 

S&B Precision

Plastic
Joined
Feb 5, 2021
is the 24v p/s giving good voltage?
The 24v supply is good, as are all of the points before and after any switches leading to the c-axis. As far as voltage is concerned, everything is as it should be.

No, do not switch the complete module but the interface card that is put into it. Can you post a photo?
Sure thing:
20210219_185148.jpg

I'm willing to swap out the drives (once I understand how), but I am not convinced that is the problem. I inspected the machine under power for an hour before buying it and it was fine. I'm certain the problem has to do with a rough move jiggling something loose, like a pressure switch or a terminal.

The c-axis has been opened up, and everything checked. one of the wires leading into the servo was a little loose, and that was tightened after ensuring it was clean. We checked to make sure the brake was functioning properly. The belt drive has the proper tension. We ran the c-axis many times while monitoring any discrepancies in the following error or torque readouts. Everything seems to be running perfectly so there doesn't seem to be any problems with the encoder.
I've tried to monitor the i/o screen and the axes info screen when it throws the alarm, but it always seems to happen when I'm *not* doing that.
Again, thanks for any ideas on what to do next and the help you guys have given so far.
 

S&B Precision

Plastic
Joined
Feb 5, 2021
I am not sure about the control and the drives on your machine but it looks you have a Millplus with Siemens modules.
I have been told C50 is most likely caused by a defect motor or Siemens drive. Start first with swopping the Heidenhain SADP or DDC interface cards, those are in the Siemens module. I don't think it will help but it is an easy check. You can try to find a cheap Siemens replacement on Ebay, or try to find a local specialist to check the motor/Siemens drive.
I think C68 is caused by the C50 error.

I tried swapping cards, the 4th axis with the 5th axis.
20210221_100530.jpg
It is pretty clean. I also checked for any bent pins, or debris in the connectors/terminals. The z-axis card was a little loose.
Afterwards, the machine gave the same alarm, c50 after about 15 minutes without any motion. This was to check if the siemens drive was faulty, right?
I need to ask my tech if he checked the motor. We did pull it out of the c-axis assembly, so i would think we did.
Thanks
Shawn
 

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Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Totalitarian Ruling Capital, EastAsia
I will get a multimeter and check that.
With newer than 1975 machines, it's worth it to use a scope. Doesn't need to be high frequency or advanced, but even for checking power supplies, it wil show you how much ripple there is on your supposedly dc voltage. Also useful for lots of other stuff. You can find a decent lightweight cheap one for under $100.
 

S&B Precision

Plastic
Joined
Feb 5, 2021
I am very grateful for all the help and suggestions you guys have made. I am left with two options: bring in DMG Mori, or remove the drive and ship it to a place called EIC repair that can run diagnostics on it for free. I'm not sure which is the best option.
The pros of DMG Mori is that it is their machine, and one would assume they are well equipped to diagnose and repair the problem. They are also only an hour away from me. I know what they charge. The cons are that my dealings with them so far, especially with their techs, hasn't been stellar. I also haven't heard good things about the American side of their service department, at least amongst smaller shops, specifically from the original owner as well as online. They quoted me 3 days for installation, which I thought was unreasonable at the time. Of course, it has been much longer than three days, so that might have been a misjudgment on my part.
The pros of EIC repair is that it is a free diagnostic. They specialize in older, less supported machinery, so I have a greater confidence they can and are willing to handle it (compared to DMG Mori, who seem uninterested). They are very responsive so far. If it needs to be repaired, and the quoted price is over a certain amount (price or time), I can always find a replacement on ebay. The cons are that I need to ship it across the country. I have no idea what they might charge for it, and that will add to the time, which I am getting anxious about.
Any thoughts from people who dealt with either of these companies previously?
 

Kees

Hot Rolled
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Location
Netherlands
DMG here in Europe will not diagnose the error, they will just replace the drive, interface-card and motor and see what happens.Because it is their experience most likely the error will be gone this way but there is no garantee. But you will pay the bill for the parts.
If you choose EIC I think it is best to send both the drive and motor so they can test them together.
 

gregormarwick

Diamond
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Location
Aberdeen, UK
With newer than 1975 machines, it's worth it to use a scope. Doesn't need to be high frequency or advanced, but even for checking power supplies, it wil show you how much ripple there is on your supposedly dc voltage. Also useful for lots of other stuff. You can find a decent lightweight cheap one for under $100.

Too many people overlook this. Checking a voltage with a multimeter only gives you a small part of the picture, and doesn't tell you anything about the condition of the power supply under dynamic loading conditions.

Ripple, overshoot, rise time, noise, regulation, switching faults - all capable of alarming out a machine control and generally not observable with a multimeter.
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Location
marysville ohio
I am very grateful for all the help and suggestions you guys have made. I am left with two options: bring in DMG Mori, or remove the drive and ship it to a place called EIC repair that can run diagnostics on it for free. I'm not sure which is the best option.
The pros of DMG Mori is that it is their machine, and one would assume they are well equipped to diagnose and repair the problem. They are also only an hour away from me. I know what they charge. The cons are that my dealings with them so far, especially with their techs, hasn't been stellar. I also haven't heard good things about the American side of their service department, at least amongst smaller shops, specifically from the original owner as well as online. They quoted me 3 days for installation, which I thought was unreasonable at the time. Of course, it has been much longer than three days, so that might have been a misjudgment on my part.
The pros of EIC repair is that it is a free diagnostic. They specialize in older, less supported machinery, so I have a greater confidence they can and are willing to handle it (compared to DMG Mori, who seem uninterested). They are very responsive so far. If it needs to be repaired, and the quoted price is over a certain amount (price or time), I can always find a replacement on ebay. The cons are that I need to ship it across the country. I have no idea what they might charge for it, and that will add to the time, which I am getting anxious about.
Any thoughts from people who dealt with either of these companies previously?

Good luck with DMG Mori, you have a 24 year old machine, their techs were in grade school when that machine was currant. Funny thing about fixing a drive, it always costs about half the price of new, strange, that. Every time I have sent one for repair the parameters were all screwed up when I got it back. The drive screwed up on my Miltronics ML20, new one was stupid money so I sent it to be repaired at a place the Miltronics dealer in Dayton Ohio recommended. Got it back and of course it was all screwed up. Dealer sent a tech to sort it out, by the time it was running again between the repair and the tech for a day + travel time I had almost enough in it to just buy a new one. Good luck.
 

Goranja

Plastic
Joined
Dec 17, 2021
Hi
I have a DMU160FD from 2004
We recently got a hydraulic leakage in the table that we now have fixed .
But after this i get an E60 error that i cant get rid of.
Has anyone got a clue on how to fix this ?
Suggestion from DMG is to replace the E/R module but its very expensive and i want to be sure that it is the problem before buying a new one.
 








 
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