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230v VFD feed

tnrcboatracer

Plastic
Joined
Aug 7, 2021
I have a 3hp ACRA mill with OEM Yaskawa V1000 VFD speed control. It is originally 380-480 3PH input. I reconfigured the motor to 230V configuration and purchased a chicom 230V VFD with either 1ph or 3ph input. I have an opportunity to pick up a Yaskawa 5.5kw 230V V1000 VFD for a reasonable price, but it requires 3ph input. I already have a 7.5hp RPC, so 230V 3ph is available. My question is would it be better to run the chicom VFD on 3ph input from my RPC? The input current would be less, right? Is the 5% voltage balance between the RPC legs acceptable for the 3ph VFD input?

I'm on the fence with the Yaskawa 230V VFD. It is used with no history. Missing covers, etc. To use it, i would need to run it from the RPC as it requires 3ph input.

The original 380-480 Yaskawa VFD was running in the mill when it was pulled from service. My long term plan is to have a step up xformer to have 460V 3ph available, but that plan is awaiting finding the correct 3ph xformer. Once i have 460V available, I'll reconfigure the mill motor back to 460V and reinstall the original Yaskawa VFD.

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rons

Diamond
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Location
California, USA
My question is would it be better to run the chicom VFD on 3ph input from my RPC? The input current would be less, right? Is the 5% voltage balance between the RPC legs acceptable for the 3ph VFD input?

It's not balanced 3ph. Even if it was I would not want the whine of a RPC motor if there was a VFD in the works.
 

tnrcboatracer

Plastic
Joined
Aug 7, 2021
RPC is in the shed with compressor on back side of shop wall. No issue with whine.

By balanced, do you mean voltage or phase angles?

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JST

Diamond
Joined
Jun 16, 2001
Location
St Louis
RPC voltage balance is generally "variable", since the voltage drop for a given current (impedance) of the generated leg is larger than for the "pass-through" legs.

Result is that balance depends on load. A rectified load like a VFD will not get good 3 phase input from a typical RPC. That may or may not matter, the VFD will "see" 3 phase, and so will not directly trip a "phase loss" sensor.

What may happen is that if the load is relatively heavy, the "ripple voltage" may exceed a limit in the VFD and that could trip it off. Or, if there is no ripple voltage sensor, the VFD may just end up operating on essentially "modified single phase" anyhow.

I'd use a single phase compatible VFD and not fool with it, given a choice.
 

mksj

Cast Iron
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Location
Tucson, AZ
The factory VFD Acra 3 Hp mill typically (230VAC version) comes with a 3 phase input VFD (CIMR-VT2A0012BAA) that is oversized so it can be run on either single phase or 3 phase. The VFD is rated for 12A output, the motor is 8A depending on that model. The derating for 3 phase VFD input model running off of single phase for the V1000 is ~1.7 (1.5-2) depending on different factors, so there would be no issue with a 3 phase input 5.5kW 230 V1000 VFD running it off of single phase in derated mode. There is phase lose detection but it is triggered off of THD, so it will run single phase but with higher ripple. A DC choke can be used to decrease the ripple if needed. That being the case, there are plenty of native single phase 3 Hp VFD's that would work and be less expensive, but will only operate off of single phase. My understanding is that single phase VFD's are essentially the same as a larger 3 phase VFD to handle the increased ripple when used with single phase. Running a 3 phase input VFD off of a RPC requires less of a derating then running it off of single phase, usually I de-rate them around 1.2 (use the next size up VFD), but depends on different factors.
 

tnrcboatracer

Plastic
Joined
Aug 7, 2021
@mksj , thanks for the detail. My thought was to use a higher quality Yaskawa VFD, instead of the 3kw 1ph chicom cpy on my mill. The yaskaws p/n is VA2B0020BAA. A couple digits do not agree with the Yashawa tech manual i downloaded. Not sure of the first A, this digit is supposed to be the region. Also don't know the first B, manual only shows an A after the voltage designation. This M/N is writted on the unit's factory ID tag, so it is correct. I may look for a V*BA0012BAA single phase unit.

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mksj

Cast Iron
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Location
Tucson, AZ
If you are looking at the model on eBay, I would avoid it. Way too ratty looking and missing parts/screws, doesn't matter that it is a larger unit. You can look-up the model specifications, the V is the V1000 series the next letter is the country code, typically U is USA but not sure what A is. the next character is the input phase voltage, B is single phase 200-240V, 2 is 200-240V three phase and 4 is 400-480V three phase followed by the output amps. Last three characteristics are the enclosure type and environmental ratings. You need to be very careful with the model numbers to know what you are getting.

This would be a much better choice at a very decent price for a new CIMR-VUBA0010BAA which would be single phase 200-240 input with a 9.6A output in normal duty mode. My only reservation with VFD's that have been sitting on the shelf for long periods of time and not powered up is the capacitors can fail. Since it is listed as new, then if it fails on initial power up I would return it. FYI, the VFD listed below was probably dropped, as one of the mounting holes is damaged, but if it powers up and is a 2018 production model should be fine.
New 3hp YASKAWA CIMR-VUBA0010BAA V1000 Tested 0 Hrs On Drive/ Phase Conversion | eBay
 

tnrcboatracer

Plastic
Joined
Aug 7, 2021
@mksj yes, thats the one. I decided to risk it, and accepted their offer this morning. I'll install it immediately, and if DOA, i can return it. I'll save the other one in case the first is dead.

There is 1 digit after the input phase/voltage. Most appear are 'A' for stsrd, but in this case it is a B. Thanks again for your response.

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Last edited:

Bill Widmer

Plastic
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Location
Virginia. USA
Interested in 3 phase generation and read through this post. After a search found in a Yaskawa manual (https://www.yaskawaindia.in/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/v1000-tech-en.pdf) they say Region Code A is for Japan, B is for China, C is for Europe, T is for Asia, and U is for Americas. Good luck with your drive and hope it works for you. While that drive does look ratty, the price was certainly right. I have a couple of machines running off VFDs and am looking at/into building a 10 HP RPC for my shop.
 

tnrcboatracer

Plastic
Joined
Aug 7, 2021
Interested in 3 phase generation and read through this post. After a search found in a Yaskawa manual (https://www.yaskawaindia.in/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/v1000-tech-en.pdf) they say Region Code A is for Japan, B is for China, C is for Europe, T is for Asia, and U is for Americas. Good luck with your drive and hope it works for you. While that drive does look ratty, the price was certainly right. I have a couple of machines running off VFDs and am looking at/into building a 10 HP RPC for my shop.
Thank you for the info. The manual I downloaded did not list all of the region codes. I just hope the B in the configuration block is not insurmountable. I will have to go through the parameters. The manual I downloaded is 512 pages.....such is the way when buying surplus stuff.

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