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8020 Principle

Scruffy887

Titanium
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Location
Se Ma USA
I have used 8020 for ever. Every flat surface in my shop is cluttered with tools, tooling, whatever was in my hand that I no longer needed. I use 20% of those tools 80% of the time, so they are on top of the clutter.
6000 sq ft and I work alone.
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
Yup. When you call them up about the bill and they put you on hold with the BeeGees for an hour, you can bet that job is not long for this world.

The last few months have been a spectator to some shops where the drama playing out would make for good lyrics in a Country Western "best of" album.

"Just when he thought it couldn't happen to him" sort of stuff.
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
Yup. When you call them up about the bill and they put you on hold with the BeeGees for an hour, you can bet that job is not long for this world.


Did you call in here overnight last night?

When I left for a delivery loop last night it was playing Beatles. (Rubber Soul I think)

When I got here this morning it was on Bonnie Rait, so the Bee Gee's should have been in the overnight playlist, and that's a dbl disk, so it prolly played for the better part of 2 hours.


----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

Mud

Diamond
Joined
May 20, 2002
Location
South Central PA
Yes Mud,
My Vise jaws are one of my products (ViseCleats), I have a few more but I lump them all together as workholding tools. There are a few of my products that will never be uploaded to my website mainly for security.


It can't take much to package a pair of vise jaws perfectly and send them out to the end user. How many vise jaws does a single large corporate customer use at one time? Does that corp. order them from your website? Or do you really have more than one product, and more than one customer, and you are making that up to prevaricate here? If you lump all your jaws together as one product, are you also lumping all your website customers together as one customer?
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
It can't take much to package a pair of vise jaws perfectly and send them out to the end user. How many vise jaws does a single large corporate customer use at one time? Does that corp. order them from your website? Or do you really have more than one product, and more than one customer, and you are making that up to prevaricate here? If you lump all your jaws together as one product, are you also lumping all your website customers together as one customer?

Look beyond vice jaws.
 
O

otrlt

Guest
It can't take much to package a pair of vise jaws perfectly and send them out to the end user. How many vise jaws does a single large corporate customer use at one time? Does that corp. order them from your website? Or do you really have more than one product, and more than one customer, and you are making that up to prevaricate here? If you lump all your jaws together as one product, are you also lumping all your website customers together as one customer?

Hello Mud,
Let me clear this up, I have 1 customer that is the core of my business. I also have developed a line of similar products that anyone can purchase. I do not solicit my products to my main customer. So there it is; 1 customer and people that buy the product.

Also to answer one of your questions; "How many vise jaws does a single large corporate customer use at one time?" answer; I don't know.

What I do know is that, on average, there is at least a dozen Kurt Vises in most small to medium size machine shops. Larger shops may average more than 100.

What has happened is although only a couple hundred business have purchased my jaws, the vast majority have returned to purchase multiple sets. So as it goes, someone buys 1 set and within 2 weeks of the purchase they are back wanting multiple sets.

Most of my jaws are used in the mid-west.
 

Mud

Diamond
Joined
May 20, 2002
Location
South Central PA
I only have 1 customer and I have only one product.

Hello Mud,
Let me clear this up, I have 1 customer that is the core of my business. I also have developed a line of similar products that anyone can purchase. I do not solicit my products to my main customer. So there it is; 1 customer and people that buy the product.

Also to answer one of your questions; "How many vise jaws does a single large corporate customer use at one time?" answer; I don't know.

What I do know is that, on average, there is at least a dozen Kurt Vises in most small to medium size machine shops. Larger shops may average more than 100.

What has happened is although only a couple hundred business have purchased my jaws, the vast majority have returned to purchase multiple sets. So as it goes, someone buys 1 set and within 2 weeks of the purchase they are back wanting multiple sets.

Most of my jaws are used in the mid-west.

There now, was that so hard? So it turns out your business model is not so unique, lots of shops are operating in very similar fashion, including others here on PM. You have one large customer consuming much of your production and many small ones. I even found myself in the same situation about 20 years ago, but not by design. A vehicle manufacturer chose one of my existing products to use in their product, and eventually consumed 85% of what a 7 man operation could produce, leaving little for retail sales or dealers, and little resources to develop new product.

Finally their demands for grossly extended terms and bigger discounts reached a breaking point and we parted ways unpleasantly. We regrouped. I looked like a dumbass to some at the time. A few years later, they ceased that operation and left others in my industry holding the bag for millions in receivables, putting some out of business. Then I was considered "lucky" because I was the only one not taken.
 

david n

Diamond
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Location
Pillager, MN
There now, was that so hard? So it turns out your business model is not so unique, lots of shops are operating in very similar fashion, including others here on PM. You have one large customer consuming much of your production and many small ones.

I knew you were tryin to flush that outa him................a while ago in a different thread he went on and on and on about how the rest of us shop owners are morons for having more than one customer............."ya haffta get one fortune 500 customer and life will be all sunshine rainbows and butterflies" he says :rolleyes5:.................sure, it might work for him, but that's la la land..............the other 99.999999% of us business owners are wrong and his business plan is the only one that truly works..................
 

Milland

Diamond
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Location
Hillsboro, New Hampshire
I knew you were tryin to flush that outa him................a while ago in a different thread he went on and on and on about how the rest of us shop owners are morons for having more than one customer............."ya haffta get one fortune 500 customer and life will be all sunshine rainbows and butterflies" he says :rolleyes5:.................sure, it might work for him, but that's la la land..............the other 99.999999% of us business owners are wrong and his business plan is the only one that truly works..................

Why do you care for a millisecond what that guy "thinks"?
 
O

otrlt

Guest
There now, was that so hard? So it turns out your business model is not so unique, lots of shops are operating in very similar fashion, including others here on PM. You have one large customer consuming much of your production and many small ones.

Hello Mud,
The vise jaw production is not nearly as labor intensive as my main work. When the jaws are completed, they are packaged, placed on my shelf and wait for a buyer. Some of the jaw models are require a 40-60 set stock to maintain a steady flow of sales. I may soon do some marketing/advertising, but for now things are going well.
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
I knew you were tryin to flush that outa him................a while ago in a different thread he went on and on and on about how the rest of us shop owners are morons for having more than one customer............."ya haffta get one fortune 500 customer and life will be all sunshine rainbows and butterflies" he says :rolleyes5:.................sure, it might work for him, but that's la la land..............the other 99.999999% of us business owners are wrong and his business plan is the only one that truly works.................

I think maybe Mr. "otrlt" is having a bit of fun. Just guessing, and because a friend has the same business model(?) if you want to call it that...

Probably the work is of a nature that previously most all manufacturers did in house years ago. Vital to stamping-forming-casting and the like. Often times the most talented went out on their own and became sole vendor to a client. Purchasing/Engineering can't take a chance so continue to use a proven vendor.

I suspect "otrlt" is not uncommon but his business usually flys under the radar so to speak. My friend does not advertise. No web site. No social media presence.

Just a guess. Easy to figure out.
 

Trueturning

Diamond
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Hello Mud,
Let me clear this up, I have 1 customer that is the core of my business. I also have developed a line of similar products that anyone can purchase. I do not solicit my products to my main customer. So there it is; 1 customer and people that buy the product.

Also to answer one of your questions; "How many vise jaws does a single large corporate customer use at one time?" answer; I don't know.

What I do know is that, on average, there is at least a dozen Kurt Vises in most small to medium size machine shops. Larger shops may average more than 100.

What has happened is although only a couple hundred business have purchased my jaws, the vast majority have returned to purchase multiple sets. So as it goes, someone buys 1 set and within 2 weeks of the purchase they are back wanting multiple sets.

Most of my jaws are used in the mid-west.

I have heard the same thing before when people have one major customer such as he has. Other things are a side line and if talking to anyone about work the company relates they serve one customer. These kinds of customers expect that the company serves them and they tend toward shops who have them as their only true customer.

These types of customers often will inspect whatever they want of the shop that does their work to tell them how to take care of them. They demand such. They even wish the shop doing their work to mimic their values.

lot is that a fair appraisal of your arrangement ?
 
O

otrlt

Guest
I have heard the same thing before when people have one major customer such as he has. Other things are a side line and if talking to anyone about work the company relates they serve one customer. These kinds of customers expect that the company serves them and they tend toward shops who have them as their only true customer.

These types of customers often will inspect whatever they want of the shop that does their work to tell them how to take care of them. They demand such. They even wish the shop doing their work to mimic their values.

lot is that a fair appraisal of your arrangement ?

Hello trueturning,
Your assessment is way off, large business do not have the time to do what you have said. The fact is; there were many toolmaking business that catered to these aerospace companies years ago, but what happened is that many of these shops turned into cnc production shops. Very few shops today make tools so the ones that are left stay busy through good or bad times.

The problem with following my path is toolmakers are extremely rare. In order to succeed you must train young people to do this work.
 








 
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