9" South Bend "Insta-Lathe"

[M.B. Naegle]

Wick kit came in today, so now the headstock and reverse lever are back together, with the exception of adjusting the bearings and thrust bearing which I'll do last with everything assembled. Also got the motor wired and tested so it's ready to go back on once the jack shaft is painted. Next will either be the apron or the jack shaft to get stripped, cleaned, and painted.

I also need to get floor space made for the South Bend. The Whitcomb Blaisdell lathe currently on the floor went in place in pieces, but I'm thinking I'm going to lag it to a couple beams and just winch it up a ramp onto the trailer in one piece. I also have a gantry hoist to assist getting it airborne. Once it's out of the garage, it's going into a storage container beside my other line-shaft machines that are awaiting a permanent shed. Not a big step forward in that project, but at least I'll be going from two none-running lathes to one. Once there's floor space, the South Bend's motor stand will start getting setup in place. I'll also need to build a new work bench as I've been using the tail end on the WB's 12 foot bed for that (with a temporary wood top of course).

 

[animal12]

Chips just around the corner .
animal

 

[M.B. Naegle]

Digging into the apron, the only problem gears are the worm gear and the manual carriage pinion (typical wear) but they're not that bad. There's more wear between gears and shafts, but I think it'll be OK for now. Short term, cleaning and new felts will do the most good, and long term I might make some replacement shafts and add some bronze bushings to the gears. It looks like gunk getting in the felts inhibited oil, and there's some pitting, likely from trapped water soluble coolant.

I think it will be better to just drip and brush cutting oil as needed, and kool-mist if I need more. Water soluble almost demands annual deep cleaning to avoid damage.

 

[M.B. Naegle]

Here's the headstock currently. Beside it, I found an aluminum gear cover that I'm polishing up, not to a mirror finish and not eliminating all the casting marks, but just enough so it has a uniform shine like the back gear covers. The hinge pin is gone and the hole is a little waller'd out, so that will be another break-in project making a new pin that's slightly oversized on the knurled side.

Under the saddle, the V-ways are relieved in the middle. Is this normal, or a later improvement? Seems like it'll make scraping it level easier.

Cleaning up the apron parts, I found that the half nut lever had been brazed back together. Good repair as you can't tell when it's painted.

A couple of details left before the apron is finished. The two top gears will need bushings and possibly new shafts in the future. You can also see the wear on the carriage pinion. The feed tumbler gear and the clutch shaft hole in the bottom of the apron could also use bushings. Not bad overall. After I paint and assemble the half nuts and do some other touch up, I need to buy or make a shim washer to take up some slack in the feed worm and then I can pin it and the inner key back together. The key is worn, but I want to test fit into the leadscrew to see if it's worth replacing.

The old apron gasket was cut from a paper cereal box. Points for resourcefulness!

Big thanks to Ken for sending me another 5/16" elbow oil cup. It was a different style than the other two, so it went on the apron and the two matching cups went on the headstock.

Following the same routine I use on our Heavy 10, I'll use Velocite 6 in the spindle bearings and apron, heavy way oil on the ways, and medium way oil for general gear and shaft oil. For daily oiling like these, I like keeping individual oil cans at each machine, and in this case I'll mark them "A, B, C" corresponding with the South Bend lubrication charts. The back gear I've used both the special Roy Dean teflon grease and 80w gear oil. Both work OK if you keep up with it (I think that point is on a 4 month rotation).

 

[DanAl]

Following and enjoying this thread.

 

[animal12]

I can't say that the saddle was relieved like yours on my 9A , maybe Ted or mr Wells can chime in on that.
animal

 

[M.B. Naegle]

Animal12, I took your advise. Saved $20 and it works well! Even stamped it for posterity.

I popped the tag off the QC gearbox and cleaned it up. The new gear cover also came with a lubrication tag, so the only tag missing is the metric threading chart, which I'll buy new. After thinking about it, I don't think my lathe would have the tag advising to leave the belt loose because it's a V-belt drive. If it had a leather belt, it would make sense to leave it loose when it wasn't being used. The lathe wasn't a war finish machine and didn't have hardened ways, so I think these would be all the tags it would have had without changing the catalog designation.
I could replace these two tags and replacements are not too expensive, but I like the wear on them. I wish the original tag still had some paint, and I might play around trying to repaint it, but it'll be hard with how shallow the embossing is. I plan to spray some lacquer on them to keep them from tarnishing again.

The original tag needed some dents removed and a careful polishing, but one thing I found interesting is that the data stamped into it was seriously depressed in like is was stamped on the gearbox and not on a flat steel bench or marking machine. I smoothed it out so it would look nicer, but I wonder if stamping these tags on the machine was common for South Bend, or if this one was due to it's "special order" designation on the factory card? IOW they didn't know exactly what catalog number it would be until they were done putting the order together.

 

[texasgeartrain]

I still need to clean up the cross slide options, but the cross feed screw works with both the regular cross slide and the T-slot cross slide, and the lever action assembly only works with the t-slot cross slide. I've got a bunch of lantern type tool holders to use with the compound, and a KDK quick change set that I might use if it fits OK (was with our Heavy 10 for a long time). The T-slot cross slide has a lot of turret lathe tool posts, as well as an indexing 4 position turret that has a spare turret that swaps quickly when you need more than 4 positions. Lots of options.

I'm not sure if it translates to your 9", but I think it might. My first South Bend was a 2H turret lathe, which I still have, and is a 16" South Bend. Tee slot cross slide was original plus original large dial, reading radius. Dial was not extended in length though, and not a concern due to tool post placement on tee cross slide:


As luck would have it, I found an NOS direct reading large dial with a brand new cross feed screw, also for a 2H turret lathe, so not extended either.

I had bought a 2nd 16" with taper attachment, and during rehab, thought I'd stick the radius reading dial on there, as I liked the large dial. Another member pointed out that because the dial was not extended, I'd loose some travel and may limit my max OD reach. He was right, though not too much of an issue for me. You can see tool post placement with large dial, not extended here:


I did sell that 2nd lathe, but I have been using an engine lathe style cross slide and compound on the 2H. It works for everything I want to do, but I do feel that limitation on occasion when I want to back tool post off. For most operations I do, I prefer the tee slot cross slide. Nice flat surfaces, just drop a mag base dial indicator anywhere on it, and its stable. Easier cleaning, heavier and more rigid. Plus with tool post position, you don't need to back the cross slide off the dovetail to reach larger OD work.

 

[M.B. Naegle]

The T-slot cross slide is handy for a lot of work, and about the only thing it obviously can't do is cut chamfers, unless you grind the desired angle into a bit. That and advancing your bit at an angle when threading.

When I had my Logan 200, I bought a t-slot cross slide that had been on a Logan 400 and went on with no modification. I made a t-nut for a QC tool post on the front and mounted an upside down cut off tool in the back and that set-up could do 90% of my work. The lathe was a change gear model so I rarely did threading on it. I sold it with the original compound cross slide and still have the other cross slide sitting on a shelf waiting for a new job. Our 11" Delta Rockwell lathe has the same configuration on a t-slot cross slide too, but there are times I wish I had a compound for it.

There's a little change over time, but having these turret lathe options can really speed up repetitive work without buying a whole different lathe, IF you have the tooling (form cutters, gang tool posts, geometric threading heads, etc) and that stuff can get pricey. Making the decision if you'll set up a job as a turret lathe vs. tool room lathe is usually the hardest part, because both ways work.

 

[animal12]

These folks sell a casting for a T-slot crossslide that ya machine to match yer machine .

Cross Slide (S-4382)

One of these is on my list for my 9A .
animal

 

[M.B. Naegle]

This Saturday I reorganized the garage, moving the big ol' Whitcomb lathe away from the wall to the middle where I'll be able to lift it with the gantry hoist and slip it onto the trailer later. It'll be a little cramped for awhile, but now there's a hole for the 9A to live with some room beside it for a new work bench since I was using part of the Whitcombs bed as a bench.

I got the QC gearbox apart and cleaned, getting ready for paint. The biggest issue is that some of the oil passages and wicks were plugged up, causing one end of the middle gear shaft to wear pretty bad. I'll be able to use it for the time being, but I posted a wanted ad on here in case someone has a spare, and I'll draw up a print for a new one before assembly so I can have this lathe make its own parts if needed.

I flushed out the oil passages in the varsol tank and felt like the little Dutch boy with his fingers in the dam, trying to cover as many of the holes as possible so the dirt could get flushed out. I think new wicks and plenty of oil will help. There's some other play that could be fixed with extra bronze bushings in the casting and gears, but not enough to bother with. That middle shaft is the worst of it, so I'd rather not buy a whole gearbox.

Also started painting the stand in preparation for it to go on the floor. I'm going with "Osha safety green", kind of a mellower emerald green. Green's my favorite color, but I don't often use it in industrial applications. Guess I felt a little wild in this case.

I also got a Kennedy 520 chest cleaned up that will live on the stand behind the tailstock. It's an old one that's always been floating around the shop, but after confirming some stories with my Mom, I figured that it was my Dad's first machinist chest, pre-dating when he purchased Irv's tools and machines. He likely bought it 2nd hand sometime in the late 70's when he was working in Hollywood. It cleaned up a lot better than I thought it would, and I was able to get a few missing drawer pulls, new felt, and a new front panel (always been missing) from Kennedy a lot cheaper than I expected. The tool box had white paint splattered all over it from a drill press mixing mishap before I was born, and I was planning on repainting it, but liberal amounts of lacquer thinner got 99% of it off without disturbing too much of the old finish, so I opted to give I all a clear coat instead. I also found an old Kennedy MS-22 two drawer riser to put under it and the local locksmith is getting me a lock for it so it will be keyed the same as the top box.

 

[animal12]

MB see if this may be helpful for yer QCGB
animal

 

[M.B. Naegle]

Here's some before shots of the QC gearbox. You can see it was nice and grime'y.

And paint is drying. With the oil passages all cleared out, I replaced the bronze bearing where the shaft had worn. After the paint is dry I will hand ream it to fit the new shaft, and with the shaft and gears dry-fitted together I'll need to drill the taper pin hole for the gear hub in the middle of the new shaft. The other bronze bearing in the middle is still in good shape.

One other bit of frustration to sort out is that when removing the chart from the front of the gearbox, two of the twist rivets broke off. They might not be hard hard, but they are harder than the surrounding iron, which is making them a challenge to drill out. If they don't come easily, I'll set it up on the Moore jig borer and see if I can gently disintegrate them with a carbide end mill. If the holes get waller'd out, I can fill them with JB weld and redrill them as they're not holding much. The holes are not thru drilled.

 

[M.B. Naegle]

Didn't really need to put the gears in the box to get the spacing right for the taper pin. It takes a #1 standard taper pin, and I used a 5/32" pilot drill.

Started painting the chart too. It's tedious as all get out, but I think it's going to come out OK. Lots of back and forth, dab a little paint, gently dab a little thinner, blow dry, gently buff with dry rag, dab a little more paint, etc. I'm using paint markers which helps in the dabbing process. I don't expect it to be perfect, but practically want more definition for better contrast, and cosmetically it will still be the same old experienced tag, but with color. Still a little more to do.

 

[4GSR]

The QC gear box on my 9" SBL lathe was a add on that was bought badly used from Sobo (sp) way back in 1978. It looked bad and worse than yours. I didn't think I'd ever get it cleaned. It turned out okay, not as nice as yours. Thanks for sharing.

 

[mattthemuppet]

Looking good to me! For my SB9 I was able to get away with lightly sanding the proud parts with some 800 or 1200 grit wet'n'dry wrapped around a block of wood. Came out pretty good.

 

[DanAl]

Very nice work, M.B.
Not to hijack this thread, but Matt, is that your 9 Junior?

 

[M.B. Naegle]

My usual routine is to wash all the oil and gunk off in mineral spirits, let dry, sand blast all the paint and rust off, then wire wheel the machined and unpainted surfaces to give them back the uniform shine, then I clean with lacquer thinner before painting (and masking if spraying). Typically I try to brush or spray in a single go and I often don't bother with bondo and primer unless there's a significant defect I'm trying to correct (rust pitting, casting inclusions, etc.). My experience is that you want as durable a surface as possible, but it WILL get scratched eventually, so from a cosmetics standpoint I'd rather see metal under the paint than some other color from primer or an old paint job.

That's what I've done on most of the parts on this lathe, with the exception of the headstock, gearbox case, and apron, because those pieces have lots of places for fluid and sand to get trapped, so I've just used the wire wheel to strip as much of the paint off as possible, or at least level out the old drips and thick spots that are more likely to chip later.

I'm cleaning the bed currently which will likely not get blasted as well so there's less chance of disturbing the precision surfaces. On an old bed like this it probably dosn't matter as much. It's more a matter of principle I guess. When I'm painting over old paint, I clean with a lot more thinner to be sure there's no residuale oil that will keep the new paint from adhering well.

 

[mattthemuppet]

Very nice work, M.B.
Not to hijack this thread, but Matt, is that your 9 Junior?

sorry Miles, but yes Dan this is my 1929 SB 9. I don't think it's a Junior though - the 382-R model no. is called a 9-inch New Model Silent Chain Motor Driven Lathe in the 1929 catalog I call it a wide 9 or heavy 9 as those models share a bed and other stuff with the heavier 10" lathe of the day.
Here's a link to the refurb

 

[M.B. Naegle]

sorry Miles, but yes Dan this is my 1929 SB 9. I don't think it's a Junior though - the 382-R model no. is called a 9-inch New Model Silent Chain Motor Driven Lathe in the 1929 catalog I call it a wide 9 or heavy 9 as those models share a bed and other stuff with the heavier 10" lathe of the day.
Here's a link to the refurb

Not a problem! That's a cool lathe.