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A question about early Automotive bearings...

99Panhard

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I was laying in bed reading a 1909 technical treatise on automobiles (yes, I know that is probably odd)and looking at the appendix which lists some of the technical details of the various cars that were new then. Most of the listings include references to the crankshaft bearings. Often they aren't too specific, clearly drawn from the companies advertising material, but I noticed that quite a few of them do not list Babbitt as the bearing material. We generally presume that early cars will have Babbitt bearing. With some they were die cast while better cars often had Babbitt lined bronze shells and cheap cars had the Babbitt simply poured into the block. However, several of the entries specified bronze bearings, including the Mathewson and the Great Chadwick, both of which were very expensive, beautifully built large cars. Many also specified "Parson's White Brass" or "Parson's White Bronze". I know of one very early(1902)car currently under restoration where the original bearings were intact and were solid bronze without a Babbitt lining. I'm wondering if this is a practical thing to do...the fact that the bronze bearings tend to be seen on expensive cars suggests it was considered a "high end" feature. Babbitt, of course, has the feature of being more amenable to dirty oil in those pre-oil filter days but this is hardly a problem now with much better oils that will probably be changed long before they get 2000 miles on them.

Has anyone else ever heard of this? It isn't the sort of thing that 99% of the antique car enthusiasts know anything about...heck, today many of them can barely change the oil.
 
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Whats called die cast bearing is simply babbit or another suitable metal moulded into a replaceable shape....There will be no steel or brass backing.......die cast bearings were common in cheaper cars,and not considered very satisfactory ......it would be rare to have plain bronze bearings,because of the need for a hardened crank journal with bronze......often bearings that appear to be solid bronze had a wash of tin on the surface,and the bronze may have a high lead content .........however ,one crank I know of was case hardened steel....the Henderson motorbike..it had leaded babbit bearings..
 
I was lying in bed

Not that it's any of my business, but what we're you lying about?

Edit: were you hiding the 1909 technical treatise inside of a playboy? :D

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Whats called die cast bearing is simply babbit or another suitable metal moulded into a replaceable shape....There will be no steel or brass backing.......die cast bearings were common in cheaper cars,and not considered very satisfactory ......it would be rare to have plain bronze bearings,because of the need for a hardened crank journal with bronze......often bearings that appear to be solid bronze had a wash of tin on the surface,and the bronze may have a high lead content .........however ,one crank I know of was case hardened steel....the Henderson motorbike..it had leaded babbit bearings..
So, in order of how well they perform;

Die cast < Poured babbitt < bronze

Or is that wrong. Seems like the bronze would have a longer service life.

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I'm not surprised at all about bronze bearings in an expensive engine. Millions of stationary engines used bronze bearings with crankshafts that were not hard. As long as you keep the oil clean (chauffer's job) they will last a very long time.
 
I'm not surprised at all about bronze bearings in an expensive engine. Millions of stationary engines used bronze bearings with crankshafts that were not hard. As long as you keep the oil clean (chauffeur's job) they will last a very long time.

I was thinking the same thing but didn't know about stationary engines. But, those I'm familiar with usually run quite slow. Do any of them hit 2000 rpm? Or does that matter?
 
I'm not surprised at all about bronze bearings in an expensive engine. Millions of stationary engines used bronze bearings with crankshafts that were not hard. As long as you keep the oil clean (chauffer's job) they will last a very long time.


Are the bronze bearings scraped, or just bored and installed?
Johnson Bronze made bronze bearing shells for flathead Ford engines, were reputed to be hard on cranks compared to soft metal shells.
 
My dad said that some early engines had a bearing that was rolled into place and then hand-scraped to width and fit size..but I have searched and can't find any rods/bearings done that way.

Thin soft metal shells seem best because one does not wear out the crank,
 
A quick search on early automotive engine bearings revealed not very much. In 1909/10, Vauxhall and Sunbeam, who at that time catered for the needs of rich sporting gentlemen, favoured white metal bearings. Now, 'white metal' here is Babbitt there, containing a great deal (around 90%) of expensive tin. However, I have seen an early reference to 'bearing white metal', containing 80% lead and 20% antimony. Magnolia Metal, perhaps.

Parsons' White Brass was widely used for automotive bearings in the early days. According to one source it contained 68% tin, 30% zinc, 1% copper, 1% lead, so it would be much cheaper than Babbitt.

Parsons' alloy was developed by Perceval Moses Parsons, a very useful sort of bloke. His bearing alloy was very widely used, presumably under licence.

I don't know what the soft metal was generally fused on to.
 
Parsons' White Brass was widely used for automotive bearings in the early days. According to one source it contained 68% tin, 30% zinc, 1% copper, 1% lead, so it would be much cheaper than Babbitt.

Parsons' alloy was developed by Perceval Moses Parsons, a very useful sort of bloke. His bearing alloy was very widely used, presumably under licence.[/QUOTE


Thanks very much Asquith! I spent an hour searching for some more adequate description of that alloy but without any luck. I thin, that if I go back and count them, it was at least as popular as Babbitt metal although many of the descriptions just say "plain bearings" soe don't know what was used.
 
There were many grades of babbit.....ranging from cheap lineshaft bearing metal that was mostly lead,to "proper" babbit ,which had no lead at all......In early engines ,the theory was that if a bearing ran hot,the metal would run and "free " the journal......bronze will seize hard ,and score the crank journal deeply,ruining the crank shaft.....this was to be avoided,if possible.
 
I have a Locomobile steam engine that I picked up. It's sort of a restoration project but I believe they only made steam engines up until about 1907 or such for an idea on the timeframe. Crankshaft bearings on there are actually ball bearings. I didn't even realize they made them back then. With that being said Locomobile was actually started if I recall my history correctly from my Stanley Steamer book by the Stanley brothers so maybe they were ahead of their time using ball bearings. Makes me wonder why they didn't show up in car engines sooner where unlike the steam car engines they had real lubrication available. I will need to take a closer look but I don't believe the Locomobile bearings appear to have ever been grease lubed.

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I was thinking the same thing but didn't know about stationary engines. But, those I'm familiar with usually run quite slow. Do any of them hit 2000 rpm? Or does that matter?

Most stationary engine don't run that fast and I would be surprised that a car engine of 1902 would go that fast either but with plenty of oil a bronze bearing can go that fast.
 
Are the bronze bearings scraped, or just bored and installed?
Johnson Bronze made bronze bearing shells for flathead Ford engines, were reputed to be hard on cranks compared to soft metal shells.

On stationary engines, most bronze bearings would have been scraped in, in an automotive application, maybe, maybe not.
 
The list I was reading was 1909 and 2,000 would be about the top end for that time period. You are correct about 1902. I think about 1200 rpm would have been maximum then and, at that time, there was very little flexability in engine speed. The earliest cars even had govenors to prevent their over-reving.

I was thinking in terms of my own car...a 1910 Mitchell. The engine was not well made. The Mitchell-Lewis company seems to have cut every corner possible. The bearings appear to be Babbitt, at least 1/4" thick, poured in the aluminum crankcase. My plan is to line bore it, make bronze shells and Babbitt those, then line bore it again for the crank. My reading got me to wondering if I could do without the Babbitt lining, which would certainly be easier but I suspect I'll go the safe route and Babbitt them. In my case, 2000 would be the absolute top end. At that speed, the car would be going 63 mph. In period, cars probably ran the fastest in 1st or 2nd gear when pulling through mud. We tend to forget how brutal road conditions were on these cars.

As to ball bearings...they were available early on but were usually imported (which is why on the earliest cars they are always metric regardless of where the car was built) and were expensive. Locomobile developed into one of the most prestigious luxury cars in America and were never cheap so I'm not surprised they used them. The company was among the first to use tapered roller bearing in their axles. The Mitchell was different. They were still using drawn-cup "bicycle" bearings in 1910.
 
As to ball bearings...they were available early on but were usually imported (which is why on the earliest cars they are always metric regardless of where the car was built) and were expensive. Locomobile developed into one of the most prestigious luxury cars in America and were never cheap so I'm not surprised they used them. The company was among the first to use tapered roller bearing in their axles. The Mitchell was different. They were still using drawn-cup "bicycle" bearings in 1910.

Not sure on the whole import thing for ball bearings. Locomobile was in Bridgeport Connecticut which is located about 35mins down the Naugatuck river valley from Bristol Ct which was home to New Departure Bearing. Not sure what year they got started making ball bearings but sources online say they were making them circa 1907. I don't know when the Torrington company got into bearings but they're only another 30mins north on the rail line into Bridgeport. Connecticut was more or less the birthplace of the American bearing industry and Locomobile was right there. I will have to see if there are any makers marks on my engine's bearings.


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Adam:

Timken Roller Bearing started out as a bearing for wagon axles. One of the reasons ball bearings were never used much in automobile and truck engines was the fact that these are multi-cylinder engines with one-piece crankshafts. No way to get a ball bearing assembly onto one of the inner main journals or onto a crankpin journal.

On the other hand, engines having 'built up' or 'pressed up' cranks such as motorcycle engines used ball and roller bearings for the main and connecting rod big end bearings. Radial (piston) aircraft engines also used ball bearings or straight roller bearings on the crankshaft main and con rod journals.

Locomobile had some dealings with the Stanley Brothers (possibly buying patent and manufacturing rights from them). There is some story there where the Stanleys sold their patent and manufacturing rights to Locomobile. Locomobile, in turn, brought in a business partner and sold him a half interest in the company for what they paid the Stanleys. In the meanwhile, the Stanleys relocated and renamed their company and went on to make some improved steam cars.

Bicycles and wagons used 'antifriction' bearings prior to automobile engines (and steam cars). Old hand operated geared forge blowers as made by Buffalo Forge and their competitor, Champion Blower & Forge both used 'bicycle' type ball bearings in their blower gearcases. These had hardened and ground male cones on the shafts, and hardened and ground female cones that seated in counterbores in the gearcases. Buffalo used loose balls, while Champion used a brass bearing 'star' to hold the balls in some kind of spacing. In both these blowers, bears are adjusted the same way bicycle axle bearings are adjusted: make up on the male cones (which are tapped with a fine thread and screw onto the shafts). I believe the first 'ball bearing assemblies' were European inventions.

As for Babbitt metal, this is a generic term and there are many different types and alloys. At the hydro electric plant, we used to send the bearing shoes out for rebabbitting. The original thrust bearing shoes (the thrust runner or thrust disc on each unit being 120" diameter, 14 tilting pad shoes) were babbitted by Hitachi, the turbine/generator manufacturer in about 1971 when the original units were built in Japan. The babbitting on the thrust shoes and shaft guide bearing shoes held up for many years. Eventually, it began to fail, showing signs of cracking and some wiping. We had bearing shoes and thrust bearing pads sent out for rebabbitting and nothing gave the service life that original babbitt from Hitachi gave. We often saw cracking in the rebabbitting that seemed to follow the lines of the keyways cut into the steel bearing shoes or thrust bearing pads. Our other problem was that the newer babbitts tended to 'self relieve' over time. If we witnessed flatness checks on the thrust shoe rebabbitting (flatness had to be within 0.0001" in 10" per Hitachi, with 85-90% blue contact on a lab grade surface plate), if those shoes were stored for a few years, they were not flat when we checked them prior to installation. Many times, we had to re-scrape sets of thrust shoes that we had in our warehouse at the plant. We tried storing the shoes down in the plant where the temperature was more constant than up at the warehouse. We had no luck with getting the shoes to maintain flatness over time. We used "Planecators" as well as blue checks and knew the shoes were flat within specs following rebabbitting, so all I could think of was the babbitt, having been machined and scraped, was 'self relieving' over time.

We worked with Kingsbury as well as Hitachi on the problems. It turned out that original Hitachi babbitt had a healthy does of cadmium in it. This cadmium increased strength at grain boundaries and was key to the original shoes holding flatness in storage, as well as the longer service life. Cadmium, being found to be quite toxic, could no longer be used in bearing metals in the USA. Working with Kingsbury, we wound up with a babbitt that contained some percentage of copper, a lot of tin, and some antimony. Kingsbury and Hitachi both had detailed procedures for babbitting, including how to pour the babbitt and how to cool the bearing after pouring. Kingsbury had a large tank of molten pure tin. Bearings to be rebabbitted were painted with a chalk wash to keep the babbitt from sticking where it was not wanted. Surfaces to receive babbitt were machined to new metal and a rough surface finish was used. Abrasive blasting and acid pickling/neutralizing/rinsing were also done. The bearings to be rebabbitted got lowered into the molten tin tank and left submerged in the molten tin for quite some time. They were pulled out by electric hoist/monorail and stainless wire brushes were used to remove excess molten tin, while stainless spatulas were used to work the tin into any odd corners in the keyways where air bubbles might have been. The tinned bearing shoes or pads were then swung onto babbitting benches or stands and steel mold bands were quickly clamped onto them. At the same time, large gas burners were lit under the shoes or pads on the babbitting stands to keep them preheated. Kingsbury sometimes poured using a babbitt pump to pump molten babbitt. For our jobs, they used multiple ladles. Once the babbitt was poured to depth, the gas burners were turned off and pressurized water jets under the bearing shoes or pads were turned on. Kingsbury had a tank of something like 100,000 gallons of water that was allowed to come to ambient temperature. This water was pumped into the jets to cool the shoes or pads as quickly as possible to ambient temperature. Initially, I thought this was odd, but Hitachi verified this was their own factory procedure.

We spent a lot of time and money chasing things like flatness on the babbitted thrust shoes and good bearing contact on the shaft guide bearing shoes. We used to have the rebabbitting shops take a skim cut on the rebabbitted areas, then do an ultrasonic test to check integrity of the bond between the babbitt and the steel shoes.
We also spent a lot of time developing our scraping methods. For years, Hitachi insisted the only way to scrape in those big bearings was hand scraping. Kingsbury p[ut us onto using the Biax power scrapers. About the time we got good with that, CNC machining centers were able to machine the babbitt to required flatness and surface finish. SInce the thrust shoes have port for high pressure oil to initially lift the rotating assembly up off the thrust shoes, Hitachi suddenly told us we no longer needed to scrape the surface on the thrust shoes. As long flatness and surface finish specs were met, they were OK with it. The guide bearing shoes on the shaft journals still had to be hand scraped, but that was nowhere near the job we used to have with the thrust shoes.

When we pour bearings for line shaft bearings or old woodworking machinery, we use a 'basic' babbitt having a lot of lead in it. Years ago, I had sent out the main bearing shoes for a Skinner Unaflow engine for rebabbitting. A General Electric apparatus repair shop did the job, and they called me to confirm choice of babbitt. I went with a high tin babbitt rather than the softer grade used for steam engine bearings in lighter service.

I also had occasion to work on the Alco 539 series diesel engines used in some older diesel locomotives. "539" means the engine series came out in May of 1939. These engines have shell type bearings, but not in the automotive sense. They have heavy bronze shells with the babbitt deposited by centrifugal casting (which many people refer to as 'spin babbitting'). The bearings are made in halves, and are bored to size. The shells are quite thick and the deposition of babbitt is also quite thick. A different animal than the shell type bearings in an automobile engine.

When the shell type of bearing came into use in automobile engines, it increased the service life of the car engines by a quantum leap. A properly designed 'plain bearing' given proper lubrication will give some amazing service. Having lived with babbitted bearings in the hydro turbines and plenty more along the way, I have a good deal of respect for plain bearings and what they can do. I think the Stanley Brothers and then Locomobile were looking to build a very light and compact steam engine. Ball bearings seemed a way to reduce weight and space, so they used them in their steam engines. How well those bearings held up in service probably never entered into the picture since people did not put great amounts of mileage on their steam cars (or any early cars, given the condition or lack of roads and much else).
 
I dug out volume 1 of the two volume set I was reading to look up bearings and see what it said. The title is "A Practical Treatise on Automobiles", edited by Oscar C. Schmidt and published in 1909. Each section is taken from some known authorities (at the time). Note the reference to lubrication which confirms exactly what Engine Bill was saying.

Bearings.jpg
 
Not sure on the whole import thing for ball bearings. Locomobile was in Bridgeport Connecticut which is located about 35mins down the Naugatuck river valley from Bristol Ct which was home to New Departure Bearing. Not sure what year they got started making ball bearings but sources online say they were making them circa 1907. I don't know when the Torrington company got into bearings but they're only another 30mins north on the rail line into Bridgeport. Connecticut was more or less the birthplace of the American bearing industry and Locomobile was right there. I will have to see if there are any makers marks on my engine's bearings.


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By "early" I was largely thinking of pre-1906. Locomobile purchased the Stanley patents in 1899. I'm not sure when their last steam car was built but I believe they were out of the steam car business before 1905. They sold the Stanley patents back to the Stanley brothers for a fraction of what they had paid for them.

My reference to imported bearings was taken from P.M. Heldt's 1910 two-volume book "The Gasolene Automobile" — volume 1 of which is devoted to Engines. Heldt was a noted engineer and the editor of "Horseless Age" magazine so I presume he knew a lot more about current practice than I do...

I'm not at all surprised that Locomobile used Timken bearings. Timken also started around 1899 but I don't know if they were making bearings suitable for the early cars...or just as likely, the makers opted for the foreign bearings if only because they (largely SKF) had been in the business longer. As late as 1913 the Chalmers car (which had a ball bearing crankshaft) used metric bearings.
 








 
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