(caution, unintentional long-winded post)
Well, I went to look at a Hardinge HLV-H and Monarch EE that were buried on a CL post for Bridgeports locally. There was a bunch of sheetmental equipment, tooling, couple of bridgeports, saws, etc. I was looking for something a bit heavier than my decked out SouthBend 10K. Turns out that this was the last of the IBM model shop in Research Triangle Park, after several downsizings (people and equipment) and layoffs over several years. I actually used to work at this site and with the shops and people, and bought a Hardinge horizontal mill and bits from one of the previous selloffs (I remember some of the equipment, including that mill, from when I started working there in ~1980 (left in 1996)). The equipment belonged to an IBM business group that was sold to Toshiba, and IBM was leasing the building the shop was in to Toshiba until Oct (so technically the equipment was IBM’s for many years, the Toshiba for the last few); now Toshiba’s lease ran out and they’ve gotten rid of all model-shop capability and people (the beancounters figure they can farm anything out to Timbuktu)—pretty sad, and IBM is probably going to tear down the building (said it was cheaper in taxes and overhead). I was interested because I know that the equipment in these shops is very lightly and sporadically used, maintained well, and not abused. Also, the last handful of people in the shop were laid off in this closing. Well, a local fellow bid on all the equipment and got it and has been selling it off. To make a long story short, I ended up with two very good condition lathes and related tooling. I hadn’t intended on getting two lathes, but the guy really wanted to get things finalized and not deal with more haranguing with buyers. I probably got a decent deal (no steals) on the equipment, and maybe make a few bucks once all is said and done. Anyway, sorry for the longwinded preamble.
Lathes: very good condition HLV-H with taper attachment, accurite DRO, I/M, with rackfull of collets, collet changer, two (IIRC) three-jaw chucks, one 4 jaw, collet stop, manuals, qc toolpost and a few holders, tailstock centers and chucks, 2 faceplate, coolant pump, fluorescent lamp, hardinge rear shield. I didn’t know where to find the SN on these machines, but it’s probably the same or later year (1970’s).
Very good condition Monarch EE (SN 50562, 208/3phase, manufactured 1970). The Monarch is an inch-only threading, taper attachment, original monarch tooling cabinet full of collets (didn’t count them all, probably 50-75 virtually unused) 5c and 2j), collet closer, steady rest, two 3c collet noses, sjogren chuck, qc toolpost and a few holders, apron stops, tailstock chucks and centers, faceplates, misc tooling bits.
They turned off the power in the building before I could actually run the machines, or the machinist take videos. However, the machinist that ran both (I knew him in passing from my previous employment there, an honest guy) of these said they were in perfect running order, with the exception of the Monarch had some intermittent glitch with the backgear interlock switch. Both machines appear to have no perceptible wear on the beds (no ridges, cannot see/feel any changes in the bed near the headstock or tailstock, no scoring at all, apron travel is smooth across bed with lock snugged up, leadscrews are flawless, spindle internally and externally are perfect, no signs of any crashes on the crossfeeds, dials are tight, no scars/dings, scoring on any of the ways. The Hardinge has a few paint chips here and there on top of the tailstock (no exposed metal and original paint) , and normal wear on the pan. The Monarch has most all of the original paint, with a few chips around, and normal paint wear here and there,on the pan and shields over the taper attachment, right around the spindle, etc. No perceptible wear on any the mechancal parts. No painting done on any parts.
I know it was a bit of a risk not running these machines, but knowing where they came from (little use), who was running them, and the actual person that ran them, along with the mechanical condition and tooling basically makes it a tolerable risk
So, I’m cogitating on which one to keep. Basically used for engineering prototyping, automation equipment, gubment projects, tools and fixtures, guitar parts etc. I know that the Monarch is perhaps not quite as user-friendly for certain things as the Hardinge, and has the more quirky drive, but is also a bit more versatile with regard to part size, spindle speed etc. (?) Such a good condition Monarch with tooling may be more “rare” than the Hardinge, but the Hardinge may be more “in demand”. How do people like that Hardinge spindle for chucks and such versus the camlock. The machinst really likes the collet usability on the Hardinge versus the Monarch. Any opinions are welcome, I’m sort of leaning toward keeping the Monarch (I don’t mean to start a Monarch-versus Hardinge war). Attached are some as-is pictures, they’re sort of grimy from oil and dust, been sitting for a few months (forgot my camera and DTI for spindle checkin, these were taken by the sellers). I’ll probably have a Monarch or Hardinge, and a mint-condition 10K with VFD, and about everything cept taper to post for sale in the near future. I’ll figure out a way to get these powered up and running also. I have 3phase, but cramming both those in my shop is an issue, may borrow a friend’s machine shop for one. Thanks for the input and all the great info on the forum—sorry for the longwinded post. Cheers, Charles
Well, I went to look at a Hardinge HLV-H and Monarch EE that were buried on a CL post for Bridgeports locally. There was a bunch of sheetmental equipment, tooling, couple of bridgeports, saws, etc. I was looking for something a bit heavier than my decked out SouthBend 10K. Turns out that this was the last of the IBM model shop in Research Triangle Park, after several downsizings (people and equipment) and layoffs over several years. I actually used to work at this site and with the shops and people, and bought a Hardinge horizontal mill and bits from one of the previous selloffs (I remember some of the equipment, including that mill, from when I started working there in ~1980 (left in 1996)). The equipment belonged to an IBM business group that was sold to Toshiba, and IBM was leasing the building the shop was in to Toshiba until Oct (so technically the equipment was IBM’s for many years, the Toshiba for the last few); now Toshiba’s lease ran out and they’ve gotten rid of all model-shop capability and people (the beancounters figure they can farm anything out to Timbuktu)—pretty sad, and IBM is probably going to tear down the building (said it was cheaper in taxes and overhead). I was interested because I know that the equipment in these shops is very lightly and sporadically used, maintained well, and not abused. Also, the last handful of people in the shop were laid off in this closing. Well, a local fellow bid on all the equipment and got it and has been selling it off. To make a long story short, I ended up with two very good condition lathes and related tooling. I hadn’t intended on getting two lathes, but the guy really wanted to get things finalized and not deal with more haranguing with buyers. I probably got a decent deal (no steals) on the equipment, and maybe make a few bucks once all is said and done. Anyway, sorry for the longwinded preamble.
Lathes: very good condition HLV-H with taper attachment, accurite DRO, I/M, with rackfull of collets, collet changer, two (IIRC) three-jaw chucks, one 4 jaw, collet stop, manuals, qc toolpost and a few holders, tailstock centers and chucks, 2 faceplate, coolant pump, fluorescent lamp, hardinge rear shield. I didn’t know where to find the SN on these machines, but it’s probably the same or later year (1970’s).
Very good condition Monarch EE (SN 50562, 208/3phase, manufactured 1970). The Monarch is an inch-only threading, taper attachment, original monarch tooling cabinet full of collets (didn’t count them all, probably 50-75 virtually unused) 5c and 2j), collet closer, steady rest, two 3c collet noses, sjogren chuck, qc toolpost and a few holders, apron stops, tailstock chucks and centers, faceplates, misc tooling bits.
They turned off the power in the building before I could actually run the machines, or the machinist take videos. However, the machinist that ran both (I knew him in passing from my previous employment there, an honest guy) of these said they were in perfect running order, with the exception of the Monarch had some intermittent glitch with the backgear interlock switch. Both machines appear to have no perceptible wear on the beds (no ridges, cannot see/feel any changes in the bed near the headstock or tailstock, no scoring at all, apron travel is smooth across bed with lock snugged up, leadscrews are flawless, spindle internally and externally are perfect, no signs of any crashes on the crossfeeds, dials are tight, no scars/dings, scoring on any of the ways. The Hardinge has a few paint chips here and there on top of the tailstock (no exposed metal and original paint) , and normal wear on the pan. The Monarch has most all of the original paint, with a few chips around, and normal paint wear here and there,on the pan and shields over the taper attachment, right around the spindle, etc. No perceptible wear on any the mechancal parts. No painting done on any parts.
I know it was a bit of a risk not running these machines, but knowing where they came from (little use), who was running them, and the actual person that ran them, along with the mechanical condition and tooling basically makes it a tolerable risk
So, I’m cogitating on which one to keep. Basically used for engineering prototyping, automation equipment, gubment projects, tools and fixtures, guitar parts etc. I know that the Monarch is perhaps not quite as user-friendly for certain things as the Hardinge, and has the more quirky drive, but is also a bit more versatile with regard to part size, spindle speed etc. (?) Such a good condition Monarch with tooling may be more “rare” than the Hardinge, but the Hardinge may be more “in demand”. How do people like that Hardinge spindle for chucks and such versus the camlock. The machinst really likes the collet usability on the Hardinge versus the Monarch. Any opinions are welcome, I’m sort of leaning toward keeping the Monarch (I don’t mean to start a Monarch-versus Hardinge war). Attached are some as-is pictures, they’re sort of grimy from oil and dust, been sitting for a few months (forgot my camera and DTI for spindle checkin, these were taken by the sellers). I’ll probably have a Monarch or Hardinge, and a mint-condition 10K with VFD, and about everything cept taper to post for sale in the near future. I’ll figure out a way to get these powered up and running also. I have 3phase, but cramming both those in my shop is an issue, may borrow a friend’s machine shop for one. Thanks for the input and all the great info on the forum—sorry for the longwinded post. Cheers, Charles
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