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Advice on first time being burned

wheelieking71

Diamond
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Location
Gilbert, AZ
You paid him COD, and he left. Now you find that the parts won't make it through QC. You call Small Shop guy, and he doesn't want to rework or completely re-run the job again, and maybe can't even afford to.

Three times now in over 9 years, I have replaced an entire run of parts. One was 2,000pcs. That one stung.

Yeah, the gun industry runs on COD. The rest of the world doesn't.

Welcome to my catch-22 (I'm not even a gun-guy).

Also - with interest rates so low, there is very little incentive to hold funds.
Think Snow Eh!
Ox

I'm still trying to figure out the reality of this one!
In the automotive aftermarket for sure, there is a huge trend right now of companies basically pre-selling what would normally be a whole run of product.
Before they even start. Its not like they take your info, and wait until shipping to charge your card.
You will pay full price to even get on the list.
Yukon Free-spin hubs (you know the ones), I would buy another set right now. But they told me 6 months out after payment.
That is just one example. I've seen several more with the exact same situation. There has to be more to this.
 

wheelieking71

Diamond
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Location
Gilbert, AZ
That's a fun story, but that will get you thrown in jail.

The moral of the story is to get to the person with the decision making power with the right info.

I felt like a complete A-hole for a while afterwards! The drive home was miserable, LOL.
But, it was in my infancy. And, I had a machine payment due, and was broke. And, as mentioned: crazy hot temper.
The real problem was: all contact to this place goes through that lady. So, short of having somebodies personal cell? She is all you got.
When I got the first RFQ from them after that, I felt a little better.
 

thermite

Diamond
As I stated in the initial post, he was called, calmly and politely. In fact, multiple times, never answered the phone calls or returned the voice mails left. He also has not responded to the emails that were sent directly to him, nor the emails that he was copied on.

So to everyone that says, you should have contacted your buyer, I did. I didn't flip out on this over night. While I have a short temper for incompetence, that incompetence took over 4 weeks to prove out. Their invoice is now 5 weeks over due.


Order was placed 11/29 with a due date of 12/10, including design, grinding custom form tooling, etc etc. Do you make a habit of delivering 5 weeks late? I sure don't. A business deal is a two way street. I meet your terms, you meet mine. Done and done. You don't want to do business with me because I hold you to the terms you agreed to, that is fine by me. I'll always meet or exceed mine.


Ox why would I call the customers people's names? Are they incompetent, absolutely. Are they idiots, probably. But I did manage to get out of my folks house with at least a basic enough education to know not to call people names. I might be stupid, but I know that insulting the person I am trying to convince to do their job is going to have a negative outcome.


The entire process was outside their normal processes. They couldn't get the job done through their normal processes. If you ask me to do a job outside your normal processes, I expect you to accommodate me outside those normal processes. They had no problem receiving the parts. They were received, and they were marked received, per the AP woman. As I stated in my initial post, the problem was the invoice was not submitted.

Probably 90% of my business is "outside normal processes". No PO, CC payment, rush work, high tolerance or weird features, we are not quite sure what we need, etc.



I won't have to worry about meeting their delivery procedures. In the future I won't be a nice guy. They will make the hour and a half round trip, hand me a check, pick up their items, and go. That part has definitely been straightened out!


No, a little less than $4k. Pocket change for the way a lot of folks boast on here. For me that is a big chunk of change.

Meahh.... technically, we are multi-millionaires. LOW 'multi', but even so.. for a couple in their 70's as both retired by age 50? We don't miss a lot of meals, nor go barefoot... as once we had both done..

$40 I could just shrug and take as lesson learnt. Wife would wage war.

$400 would have my attention, but my Lawsters are not cheap folk. "Cheap" Lawsters lose. Better ones do not. But $400 would not buy even one hour, so..

$4,000?

Pilgrim? Companies have been put onto the ash heap of history for THAT sort of coin.

They are nearly ALWAYS breaking several laws. SOMEBODY just has to "give a damn" - lest they keep to bad habits, forever.

"Ageing" of Accounts Payable is so common a trick, it is actually TAUGHT in Finance courses as to the benefits. Even so, there are limits. Bit of a recce, my bet is you are nowhere near the Lone Ranger, are in plentiful company as to being f**ked-with.

Some jurisdictions, just TWO aggrieved creditors so file, formally?
That can force a truant firm into bankruptcy court. Not "fun" even if they escape, unscathed.

Wise to check for court filings BEFORE doing bizness, BTW. Cheap, fast, and easy process, after all.

2CW.. and my usual disclaimer, as agreed with Gareth Lugar-Mawson:

"I am not a Lawyer"
"A Nimitz-class carrier battle group is not a Lawyer, either."
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
Ox why would I call the customers people's names? Are they incompetent, absolutely. Are they idiots, probably. But I did manage to get out of my folks house with at least a basic enough education to know not to call people names. I might be stupid, but I know that insulting the person I am trying to convince to do their job is going to have a negative outcome.





I've had my shop now 12 years, and 6 of that it has been my "full time" job.

In that 12 years, this is the first time I have been burned by a non-paying customer. Well, they sorta paid.

In July of 2021 a company approached me to do some really strange work, in an industry that I have never done work in before. They spent several weeks trying to find a shop to manufacture the small quantity, very specialty work, in a VERY short lead time. Ie, 4 parts, completely bastard everything, worthless drawing, they don't know exactly what it is they need, but they needed it two weeks ago.

I have a policy that new customers pay 50% upfront and 50% on completion. That worked fine for them because they didn't have time to formally submit everything and get a PO made. They paid the 50% down with a CC and I got started. I got the parts done, early, (worked over July 4th weekend and on July 4th) and told them to make the payment and they could pick up the parts. To save the 3% CC fee they asked if they could bring a check. No problem. They bring a check for the full amount, pick up the parts, no issues.

Beginning of December they reach out and say that they need another batch of parts made. A different bastard part, same conditions. They say it has to be run through a PO this time. I submit a quote, but since they are a repeat customer, terms are now payment on completion. They say great. Even after some issues with their worthless drawing and specs I get the parts made.

Here is where I am an idiot, and everything falls apart. They are about 45 minutes away, and I happened to be driving by. So I dropped off the parts, saving them an hour and a half drive. The guy I deal with isn't there. No-one else knows anything about the parts. So I call the guy and he says yea great, leave them with so and so. It's a Friday afternoon, no-one is there to cut me a check.

Some of you are either laughing or yelling at the computer screen like a bad horror movie.

In some ways I lucked out a little bit. The companies AP department reached out to me for a W-9, so they gave me their own information. When the invoice got to be 2 weeks late I called and explained who I was and the woman on the phone was very polite and apologized for the payment not being made. Seems the guy who wrote the PO and ordered the parts marked them as delivered, but did not submit the invoice. I emailed her another copy of the invoice, and while on the phone she confirmed that she received the invoice. She said they would run a check the next batch and have it out to me.

2 weeks later I still had not received payment. So I sent emails out again and she responded that she had no invoice and even included a nice screen shot of her computer system showing that there was no invoice due.
I had started to email her back that she was incompetent and I don't enter invoices into their systems, that's her job, and she confirmed she had the invoice so clearly she didn't do her job. My wife intervened and typed her a short and terse email in AP/AR jargon explaining that she was incompetent and didn't do her job, but in business speak. I got an email that afternoon that a check would be cut the next run(probably friday).

The following monday a check arrives in the mail. Hooray.

But wait....

There's more!

The check is for just over half of the invoiced amount.

I have found as I have gotten older my patience has rapidly evaporated. People's incompetency and general stupidity has pushed me to the point where I am 100% full boil instantly. I spend probably more time than reasonable double, triple, and sometimes quadruple checking my work. Verifying all aspects to guarantee that my work, or whatever I am doing is correct. When I make a mistake I am proactive, I take care of it before anyone knows it exists. When I fail to identify a mistake before someone else identifies the mistake, when that mistake is identified, everything in my life comes to a stop until that mistake is corrected.

Immediately upon looking at the check I am pissed, beyond pissed. I bent over backwards to get this company what they needed, I was a nice guy and went out of my way to save them an hour and a half drive, I did the work that half a dozen machine shops wouldn't attempt, and they screwed me. I already had my phone out trying to decide whether to call in a tactical missile strike or nuke the whole place into oblivion and walk away from it all together. My wife took the check from me and looked it over.

Thirty seconds later she says, this is a deduction, they deducted from your invoice.

WTF does that mean!

It means they think you owe them money, so they deducted that from your invoice.

Sure enough we sat down at the computer and looked up the two previous invoices for this company, and low and behold, they deducted the two previous invoice amounts from this invoice.

So, now, what the heck do I do? My wife once again saved my hide and wrote another email to the AP lady explaining that they had an unauthorized deduction without providing any backup or explanation, and further the deduction was not approved and never discussed and they would need to submit full payment.

That was monday. No one is responding to phone calls or answering emails. The "Operations Manager" who I usually communicate with is not answering his phone, AP lady is not answering her phone, and no one that I have email addresses for are responding.

My wife explained to me that the AP People are like robots. Stupid robots I asked? They just process the information. If the information they are given is incomplete or incorrect, it still gets processed. Hmmm stupid programmer then. No, they just work within the confines of their task. Some companies give their AP department a lot of room to look at and do things, other companies do not. She thinks once they look to provide backup, they will find that there is none, and make complete payment.

I do not think for a second that they will.

So my immediate thought is Small Claims court. Any thoughts, opinions, experiences? Is it worth my time? When they get a summons will they show up with a big shot lawyer? Maybe... at this point they are going to spend the money they owe me one way or another.


I missed the part that that you didn't send it, but apparently you did not actually learn that:

"insulting the person I am trying to convince to do their job"

is a bad thing, but apparently your wife did learn that?
I also took it that her mail was not so nice, but I take it from your rebuttal that she "honey'd it up" a bit.


Communications are terrible right now for sure tho.
You had the holidays in there, and now it seems that EVERYONE is home sick!
And those that ARE there are running around and picking up loose ends everywhere.
Many people are not in their own jobs,and are covering for others.

The furnace brazing outfit that I use near here was running on 1/2 crew for the last cpl'a weeks.
I think that they are pretty much up and running now tho.
(my parts got done)

I have a customer up in Minnesota that has had several off.

I have another customer that is more local, and I haven't gotten any response from that direction to speak of in a while.
Purty sure that contact is out as well...

etc...


I doubt it's any different on your side of the state.
I also doubt that there was any malice intended.
Likely your guy is out?
And maybe the main A/P clerk is out as well?



Edit:

So, are you saying that you have not done anything to burn the bridge to this customer yet?
All the ranting a raving has been here, or at home, and you are just venting to us?
That's not what it sounded like, but maybe?

But the fact that we get the routine thread about "How doo I find Customers?" and then to read a post like this where there has clearly been mistakes made - and mostly b/c you are special and can't be bothered with standard accounting practices, you either have, have all but, or are clearly looking to burn this bridge.
The next time this guy is looking at a potential one-man-band that wants to make parts for him, he just may say "forget it'....

Enough so - that you are at 35 days, over the biggest holidays, during the biggest "sick" bought, in-amungst the worst employment surge - and you are fit to be tied?
Forget the fact that you DID get a check! Maybe the right hand doesn't know what the left did a few months ago, but it will come out in the worsh. Jist hold'ger britches on sonny!

Now, is a customer that normally pays at 30 or even 45 days (is anyone paying that late routinely these days?) not worth having?
Charge the price that you need to for the "special" work and attention, but when you start asking for special stuff in their office, and it doesn't work out, you can be disappointed, but don't be surprised.


-----------------------

One Man Band
Ox
 
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john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
Its got a lot to do with your attitude....if you accept bad payers and bad debts as just something that happens,it will happen a lot.......If you let the bad payer know for sure he s made a bad choice ,and back it up,its surprising how quickly the word spreads.......the habitual bad payers try their tricks on someone else .
 

ratbldr427

Stainless
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Location
jacksonville,fl.
I don't believe that that any large company with on staff accountents make any accidental payments that short venders. They play all kinds of games to delay payments even when they don't have to. How many times have any of you been over paid on any invoices?

One thing I got burned on was a bad check for $1,500. In Florida (when I was in business) any bad check over $50. was a felony punishable by jail time, except if it was for payment of a past due bill. Then the threshold was $50,000 before it became a felony. Payments by check for a past due bill are treated like a promissary note. So if you left someone with goods and did not get payment then you extended them credit. With nothing in writing it makes it hard to collect. Rules may differ from state to state but it is something to consider when extending credit.
 

cnctoolcat

Titanium
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Location
Abingdon, VA
A couple of good rules to follow for a new customer (and especially existing customers):

1.) Make sure you get the name and contact information of the person in the company to contact to GET PAID.
Not the secretary, not the clerk, but the Big Guy who actually approves and decides to cut the check. You only want to talk to the Big Guy when absolutely necessary. The buyer or engineer or manager you're dealing with will know who the Big Guy is in the company.

2.) Whatever your terms are, a few days either before or after the invoice is due, make a call to the accounting secretary or clerk and simply ask "when do you plan to pay Invoice #___, which is/was due on ## date?"

If they don't get back with you within a day, call them back. No definite answer after a third attempt is probably gonna require getting the Big Guy on the phone....after the invoice is due so he can't weasel out.

But don't wait too long. And document phone calls with follow-up emails to the person describing what was said and agreed-to during the phone conversation.

No help from the Big Guy means you don't have a customer, at best a questionable one.

ToolCat
 

Mcgyver

Diamond
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Location
Toronto
if you've got a hair trigger are ready to go to 100% boil in a heartbeat, don't interact with customers. You have to figure that out; imo its too hard to get customers to go and run them off.

How big a business? Decent sized businesses don't go around screwing vendors for 4000 when they've issued a PO and received the goods. There are lots reason why this could have transpired that don't include the customer trying to screw you. 4000 might be a lot for you (i don't sneeze at it either) but its hardly enough to hire a lawyer over even if they did.

I've handle things sometimes by having someone phone as a collection agent before - one case 6 months over due, huge company. Got paid right away, they'd made a clerical error and thought they paid it so ignored our communications....calling as a collection agency simply escalated it to the level where there was an intelligent person who spotted the error. No one was trying screw anyone.

You did screw up not getting a signed packing slip/receipt for the goods. However if they've acknowledged receipt, be just polite and persistent and you'll get paid without burning a bridge.

Also, 30 days terms are often 45 or 60 in reality. You want to be a good trade partner and pay on time, but if we're getting stretched sometimes we have to stretch and 99% of the supply chain is fine with it. they get it. Its almost comical though when you get little shop freaking out on day 31 because the check hasn't arrived. Next.

If you're granting terms and moving up the food chain, do your due diligence and stick with good policies - you are loaning money when you extend credit. Shouldn't you carefully check out who are loaning money to? And operate with PO's, receipts, deposits etc - they're contractual and matter a lot, esp when it its the fan. And if they paid 50% up front before, why come off that?

There are shysters for sure, but despite the public's messed up view of business and capitalism, those of us in business know 99.999% of business transactions work out just fine. Just be a bit patient, polite and persistent.
 

Doug

Diamond
Joined
Dec 16, 2002
Location
Pacific NW
A couple of good rules to follow for a new customer (and especially existing customers):

................................................

2.) Whatever your terms are, a few days either before or after the invoice is due, make a call to the accounting secretary or clerk and simply ask "when do you plan to pay Invoice #___, which is/was due on ## date?"

If they don't get back with you within a day, call them back. No definite answer after a third attempt is probably gonna require getting the Big Guy on the phone....after the invoice is due so he can't weasel out.

But don't wait too long. And document phone calls with follow-up emails to the person describing what was said and agreed-to during the phone conversation.

No help from the Big Guy means you don't have a customer, at best a questionable one.

ToolCat

Maybe I lived in a dream world, I don't recall any slow payers...

I certainly would not insult a customer by calling to ask when they intended to pay unless it was very late, like more than a month. I believe my bigger customers ran checks only on certain week days so a check might have to wait a few days.

I get email reminders from various firms like my phone, internet and credit card providers saying your bill is ready. All it does is piss me off since we pay all bills as they are received. Maybe they're having problems with slow payers, but those aren't us so you'd think they could check our payment history and remove us from their reminder list.
 

cnctoolcat

Titanium
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Location
Abingdon, VA
I certainly would not insult a customer by calling to ask when they intended to pay unless it was very late, like more than a month.

We're discussing strategies to get paid reasonably on-time.

For a brand new customer, calling the relevant person in accounting around the due date of an invoice and politely asking when they intend to pay is not insulting. It's just business. Your company did the work, the work was received, and now the term is up, and it's time to get on with the paying process.

More often than not the accounting drone has been trained in stall strategies such as "We never received an Invoice". You want to take care of all the excuses around the due date, not weeks or months after.

This strategy also works for any customer that is stretching the terms too long.

You want to be proactive here, again especially with new customers. The "payment process" can take a week or more, even after the Big Guy says to cut the check.

In general, to protect your business later-on in legal proceedings if necessary, you need to be actively contacting them after invoices are due, and do not let them routinely take 30+ or more days than the written Terms.

You have to prove to the bankruptcy judge your company did all due diligence in attempting to collect on time.

A lot of Net 30 accounts average Net 60 or more. You're better off (legally speaking) getting them to change the terms to Net 60, then holding them to it.

That's what we do at the Cathouse. Net 60 customers get the bell rung no more than 5 days past the due date, and if an order is open it won't ship until we know when the check is coming.

Yes, probably 99% of companies that are buying precision machined parts do pay their bills. But most will try to use your company as a bank, often extending the stated terms.

Just make it your company policy to politely hold them to the terms they agreed to.
It's just business.

ToolCat
 

Fal Grunt

Titanium
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Location
Medina OH
but when you start asking for special stuff in their office

You consider requiring a shop to follow through with their agreement special?

I have no idea if people are out, or sick. No one communicated. If someone was out of work for an entire 4 weeks wouldn't you think that someone would cover that persons desk? Everyone I know does a process called "management". This concept that if a person is out sick, their tasks and work is covered. Everyone I do business with uses that process. I have not noticed any difference from any of my other customers or vendors. I just ordered a batch of custom tooling from the grind shop I use, 1 to 2 weeks per normal. Steel supplier is shorter lead time than normal. Everyone is meeting or exceeding their quoted delivery date.

I am a one man shop, and I still manage, when sick, or on vacation, to put an "out of office" alert, or reply to important time sensitive emails. Everywhere I have ever worked, my machine was covered, my work was covered by someone while I was gone, whether sick, or vacation.

Its got a lot to do with your attitude....if you accept bad payers and bad debts as just something that happens,it will happen a lot.......If you let the bad payer know for sure he s made a bad choice ,and back it up,its surprising how quickly the word spreads.......the habitual bad payers try their tricks on someone else .

Yea, there's a local place. They have lots and lots of work available. Low paying work, but lots of it. 90 day terms. 120-150 day actual payments.

I don't believe that that any large company with on staff accountents make any accidental payments that short venders. They play all kinds of games to delay payments even when they don't have to. How many times have any of you been over paid on any invoices?

My wife manages a team that handles close to half a billion dollars in short payments PER YEAR. She would argue that you are very incorrect with that belief. Over pay, never. Short pay, as much as possible.

if you've got a hair trigger are ready to go to 100% boil in a heartbeat, don't interact with customers. You have to figure that out; imo its too hard to get customers to go and run them off.

If they don't pay they are not a customer. They are a thief. They have stolen my time, which is more precious to me than anything. If they are incompetent why would you want them as customers?

I interact with all of my customers. Some of them have become friends. This is the first one in 12 years. I do not think it is a ME problem.

Decent sized businesses don't go around screwing vendors for 4000 when they've issued a PO and received the goods.
Absolutely they do. See my previous comment.

You did screw up not getting a signed packing slip/receipt for the goods.
I have a delivery receipt, and proof of delivery.

30 days terms are often 45 or 60 in reality.
I can't think of one of my vendors I have terms with that would be OK with me taking another 15 to 30 days. In fact, I have terms with 3 vendors. I forgot to call and pay the one in the 30 days and on the 31st day they called me to ask how I would like to pay.

Do you pay your vendors in 45 to 60 when your terms are 30? What's the name of your business?

Its almost comical though when you get little shop freaking out on day 31 because the check hasn't arrived. Next

Maybe you missed the point that it was 30 days late, not 30 days. With your math, then I'm at 60. That's still OK by you? Is 61 still OK by you? What about 91? 101? When should I start caring?

Just be a bit patient, polite and persistent.
4 weeks over due is the limit for that patience and politeness. Week 5 means I start contacting like I did.
 

HappyWyo

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
I've been in business long enough to have accumulated over ten thousand dollars in unpaid invoices. Some people have a lot more. I've had customers like yours and customers even worse. They don't pay, use rubber checks, go bankrupt etc. You are lucky you have been in business as long as you have and only been ripped off like this once. I took a customer to small claims court and won, and lost. The judge ordered him to pay, and dismissed us. I told the judge if he lets him go he won't pay. The judge said he had no authority to physically make him pay. I would have to get an attorney to try to put a lien on his wages. The whole thing was a waste of time and money on my part. If you go through all that you are probably going to get a bankruptcy letter in the mail saying you can't collect. I've gotten more than one. If, and that is a big if, you can find a good collection agency that is your best chance. Then just forget it. Let them do what they can, but don't count on it. Letting your wife get emotionally involved is a mistake you will eventually regret. Do the work yourself or the pressure will cause problems in your marriage. You won't see it coming. Stop writing letters. If you write enough letters they will eventually make it to the Internet and your adversary will make it look like you are the biggest thief in the free world. I personally like to keep a five star rating. That will get you more customers and income than you lost with one crook. I've been married 43 years to the same woman, and been in business since 1988.
 

Doug

Diamond
Joined
Dec 16, 2002
Location
Pacific NW
We're discussing strategies to get paid reasonably on-time.

For a brand new customer, calling the relevant person in accounting around the due date of an invoice and politely asking when they intend to pay is not insulting. It's just business. Your company did the work, the work was received, and now the term is up, and it's time to get on with the paying process.

More often than not the accounting drone has been trained in stall strategies such as "We never received an Invoice". You want to take care of all the excuses around the due date, not weeks or months after.

This strategy also works for any customer that is stretching the terms too long.

You want to be proactive here, again especially with new customers. The "payment process" can take a week or more, even after the Big Guy says to cut the check.

In general, to protect your business later-on in legal proceedings if necessary, you need to be actively contacting them after invoices are due, and do not let them routinely take 30+ or more days than the written Terms.

You have to prove to the bankruptcy judge your company did all due diligence in attempting to collect on time.

A lot of Net 30 accounts average Net 60 or more. You're better off (legally speaking) getting them to change the terms to Net 60, then holding them to it.

That's what we do at the Cathouse. Net 60 customers get the bell rung no more than 5 days past the due date, and if an order is open it won't ship until we know when the check is coming.

Yes, probably 99% of companies that are buying precision machined parts do pay their bills. But most will try to use your company as a bank, often extending the stated terms.

Just make it your company policy to politely hold them to the terms they agreed to.
It's just business.

ToolCat

Tool',

I perfectly understand your point, but the time for me to be pro-active was before the work was done. All of my customers were local to me. I made a point to at least meet, in person, somebody from every customer, usually an engineer.

What I required was three local references they'd done business with recently, like in the last year. It worked for me. Even in a city like Seattle it's small world machining-wise, word gets around about customers who don't pay on time.
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
And dont worry about ruining your reputation using debt collectors....a relative of mine is a senior medical specialist....the kind who calls himself Mr.......and he uses debt collectors.
 

Mcgyver

Diamond
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Location
Toronto
Did you ever tell us the amount of money involved here?

As to small claims court, years ago I went over a $200 unpaid invoice. The other party didn't show up so of course I won. But, that's only the first step, to collect you have to hire a lawyer to go through the next phase of collection. The lawyer I contacted advised giving up since his bill would be substantially more than the $200 with no assurance I would collect anything. So it was an education that cost me $75, $25 filing fee an $50 to serve the other party.

but how much of your time was involved?

One way to make sure they show up is to sue for 20,000 not 200. Sure its BS, and they get settled before court for say the 200, but it won't be ignored as doing so will result in a judgement that would be worth pursuing
 

Mcgyver

Diamond
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Location
Toronto
Y


I am a one man shop, and I still manage, when sick, or on vacation, to put an "out of office" alert, or reply to important time sensitive emails. Everywhere I have ever worked, my machine was covered, my work was covered by someone while I was gone, whether sick, or vacation.



Yea, there's a local place. They have lots and lots of work available. Low paying work, but lots of it. 90 day terms. 120-150 day actual payments.



My wife manages a team that handles close to half a billion dollars in short payments PER YEAR. She would argue that you are very incorrect with that belief. Over pay, never. Short pay, as much as possible.



If they don't pay they are not a customer. They are a thief. They have stolen my time, which is more precious to me than anything. If they are incompetent why would you want them as customers?

I interact with all of my customers. Some of them have become friends. This is the first one in 12 years. I do not think it is a ME problem.

Absolutely they do. See my previous comment.


I have a delivery receipt, and proof of delivery.


I can't think of one of my vendors I have terms with that would be OK with me taking another 15 to 30 days. In fact, I have terms with 3 vendors. I forgot to call and pay the one in the 30 days and on the 31st day they called me to ask how I would like to pay.

Do you pay your vendors in 45 to 60 when your terms are 30? What's the name of your business?



Maybe you missed the point that it was 30 days late, not 30 days. With your math, then I'm at 60. That's still OK by you? Is 61 still OK by you? What about 91? 101? When should I start caring?

4 weeks over due is the limit for that patience and politeness. Week 5 means I start contacting like I did.

You were accommodating to wait 30 days, but at the same time, mistakes happen, so don't assume the worst. Payments are often not down to the day, about a 2 week stretch would imo be about average. So yeah, after 30 start chasing it. However you'll have more success overall if you do so politely and persistently. Wouldn't the ideal scenario be to get paid and end up doing a lot of high margin work for them over the years?

They're a thief? Seems a bit silly. They haven't stolen from you, they just haven't paid you yet. Unless you have some reason to think they are overtly trying to screw you (like they said fuck you we're not paying), they're probably not trying to screw you. So you play the odds. And its small potatoes (30 days interest on 4000). Your call over how much of a panty knotter that is for you, but I can tell you going to boil over it is self limiting behaviour - the outcome is higher blood pressure and few customers.

btw not going to boil is not that same as doing nothing. I agree after 30, time to call/send statements/drop by etc. But its hardly the time for desk pounding, a lawyer or collection agent.

Hint: if it comes to it, be your own collection agency. Then you get 100% of the funds. As I said, even when it comes to that it has always been just a way to jar the system and knock the cheque loose.
 

CarbideBob

Diamond
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Location
Flushing/Flint, Michigan
...

Do you pay your vendors in 45 to 60 when your terms are 30?
.
Sometimes yes. I know this is very bad. Just got a note from a big Mc supplier that I am over 60.
Oh shit. how is that 300 dollar invoice screwed up to my vendor of over 45 years.

I also give discounted for 10 or 15 days to many customers. Some take it some do not.
GM is second day of second month so 60 plus.
60 days is when you send a note and ask if this invoice in the system or is there a problem.
Over 90 is when you become concerned. worry and poke a bit.
Once you extend any terms you become the bank. Hopefully this is in the price.
If a repeat customer rolls 60 plus all the time month after month and year over year it works out okay but you are floating this loan.
Where does loan money come from? Interest rates or lines of credit are very cheap now but cash on hand could be in the market which has a high yield so far.

There will be times of doing work and never ever get paid if you give terms.
If you do not give terms you get less and smaller customers.
Cash flow is king. A nice steady flow late is not so bad.
Bob
 

UptownSport

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 25, 2012
Location
Minneapolis
UCC.

Part of the Uniform Commercial Code intent phrasing says it all '...to expedite trade.'

Unlike other areas such as real estate or private transactions that aren't a normal part of one's trade, you don't need a contract. An email simply stating "I'd like X number of parts' is sufficient to deliver those parts- that's all.

You may have heard of the 'Battle of the forms' where your man at the dock signs a routine looking 'Invoice' that modified every part of the deal ...
It 'sticks.' That's why truckers simply get a time slip from a warehouse, showing they were there, now.

In short, if your state has adopted it (It's a misnomer, it's not 'Uniform' or even universally adopted) and there's any evidence he 'accepted' the offer, he's screwed.

Of course, for small claims court they won't bother to show up, so it really doesn't matter what the UCC says
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
Lotta numbers ...30/45/60/never......whats not been mentioned is time.....you end up spending 2 days a week chasing money that you should not be owed in the first place .........if one of your customers came by and said hes having a hard time...would you lend him $50k ?....or if he says he got two daughters both have to have Italian weddings at $30k each in the next coupla months?
 








 
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