Advice wanted for an apprentice beginning his tool collection

[MilGunsmith]

I think it is funny he has all that crap listed out and there is no file.

Here's an idea: throw out all that junk and learn how to (1) make a serviceable file (as opposed to the worthless garbage that you can buy), and (2) use that set of actual working files.

If you can do that, you will be better than 99% of the machinists I come into contact with.

Most new machinists that I have met dont even know how to use a file for anything but deburring. When I was a Toolmakers apprentice I had to make a pair of V-blocks using a hacksaw and file. Now its even hard to find good files.

 

[CarbideBob]

That is a big list.
Buy only what you can use now, not what you want to show off.
Bob

 

[boslab]

I wish I was where you are now not where I am, I’m on the way out, your on the way in, be humble, not arrogant, you learn more, a tool box changes over the years but your heart doesn’t, be kind, considerate, patient, you’ll have plenty of time to prove how smart you are, I’m sure you already have that .
Learn to work with people, more important than tools, say thank you when helped. These simple things will allow you to go far , I hope you enjoy your future, if your not happy don’t fear change
Good luck, god bless
Mark

 

[PegroProX440]

Dont go broke. Build it up over time. Skip the dial calipers and get a Mitutoyo digital one.

 

[CarbideBob]

Most new machinists that I have met dont even know how to use a file for anything but deburring. When I was a Toolmakers apprentice I had to make a pair of V-blocks using a hacksaw and file. Now its even hard to find good files.

Oh, the first time I was caught using a file wrong....
The old German guy came over and literally slapped it out of my hands in disgust.
Same thing with a hacksaw.... ouch, I did not know any better and had been doing it that way since six years old.
Ruined many of both,... it is always good to have a mentor.
Now I am the old fart that walks up and screams ...NO..NO..NO.

The trick is not have one or many boxes full of tools. It is knowing how to use them well.

If you have lots of stuff other people will know it.
You need a sign on the box that says "These are my tools. Touch them without permission and die."
Dad was board designer before a toolmaker. Hand engraved on even the simple plastic square and rulers ... "Stolen from R Hem"
Bob

 

[75sv1]

I might add telescoping gages for holes. I do like a digital caliper. Also, useful to go from metric to inch. I would par down the list though. Also, an indicator holder that fits the Bridgeport head.

 

[Hodge]

Hey Matthew,
Congratulations on your career choice. It's not the easiest path out there and fairly costly acquiring proper measuring equipment and tools. Bit of a learning curve as well.

This leads me to this observation: You should be making $15.00 or more an hour at this stage. (Assuming you are on your way to becoming an accomplished machinest) Unless you are well off and and don't have bills it's gonna be difficult stocking your toolboxes with nice tools. Much less paying those pesky day to day and monthly necessities.

I have rarely seen a company or boss rise to the occasion and bring low pay up to snuff after a proper period of reliable work. I understand he may have been burned and is just being cautious, if so my apologies. Hire in pay can indicate a lot about future pay.

On the subject of tool boxes. One properly laid out box with tooling for your current needs would be money well spent. At this point in time outfitting two boxes is a redundancy and financial burden that isn't necessary.

I haven't seen a nice tape measure listed. Easy to read, operate, and lock. A small one 10 to 15 fifteen for your pocket and maybe a bigger one for the box. Make that two small one's, they're easy to misplace.

Take this advice for what you paid for it. I wish you well in your career.

Hodge

 

[michiganbuck]

Simple feeler set to have loose shims for mill and grinding spacers.

https://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Measuring-Engineers-Thickness-Hardened/dp/B07K655NMM/ref=sr_1_19?crid=3OB2XRGU0R4U5&keywords=shim+feeler+set&qid=1669891320&sprefix=shim+feeler+set%2Caps%2C100&sr=8-19

Where allowed good to have your own JoBlock set, but this may not be an apprentice thing...Good to make a few adjustable spotters ( block with a tapered slide bar.)
A planer gauge can be handy but nit likely an apprentice thing.
A couple of each of C clamp sizes.
Make your own bar diamond dresser for a surface grinder about 3 1/2 x 1 1/2 x 3/4"@15*

A paint stick so you can mark your metric wrenches

 

[Bill D]

One of those cheap vibrator diamond markers to put you name on your tools.

 

[John Garner]

michiganbuck --

I'm not familiar with your term "adjustable spotters". Is that another term for "adjustable parallel", or something else. If something else, I'd a description of the tool and its use.

Thanks,

John

 

[John Garner]

In the absence of a reply from michiganbuck, can anyone else provide a more-detailed description or a photo of the the "adjustable spotter" he describes as a "block with a tapered slide bar"?

Thanks,

John

 

[michiganbuck]

Such a spotter is most often used on a surface grinder and often can cut the first part to 1/2 the grinding time..or make a day run of parts in half the time.
Take a block of mild steel. Grind a slot at about 30 degrees and rough fit a bar into that slot. Drill a couple set screws from one side so to lock the sliding bar with flat nose set screw or a nylon set screw pad.. Grind the topside flat and it becomes an adjustable spotter for .0002 or so repeat parts.
One might put a sliver of masking tape on the spotter for a .003 warning and a grease pencil stripe for the last tickle.
Set it with a micrometer at + .0005 or so, and take .0005 off the part and the spotter for the first part.
Yes, you may also watch your handwheel and perhaps have a slip of tape to stick on your hand wheel for the last part dial number.
One spotter might be for 1/2" to 1 1/2", and the next may be for 1 1/2 to 3"
Using an already ground part for a spotter is also a common shortcut.

The aim is to avoid unnecessarily taking parts off of your grinder chuck, reduce measuring and not go undersize on a part.
Yes, you still need to consider heat swell.
* Being the shop's Grinder Hand is a nice position, the job is much easier than people would think once you learn the basic shortcut to high productivity.

 

[John Garner]

Thank you, sir! I appreciate your description of the tool, its use, and the idea of using tape as a do-not-exceed marker on a hand wheel or its micrometer collar.

As obvious as a tape marker seems now, I'd neither seen nor thought of it in the more than fifty years I've been around machinists and machine shops.

 

[michiganbuck]

...and they won't supply them you need to leave.
If it is a decent shop and most of the guys have late-model cars and trucks don't get persnickety about small stuff, but count your blessings and try to do good work.
Try to not borrow something twice.
QT: I have completed Introduction to... be careful giving old-timers advice..but ask questions and be thankful for answers.

Matthew,
How are you doing? I see that you came to PM yesterday.
Have you specialized in some type of work or all around the shop?
Do you have any advice for the next newbie?
We could use an update.
Buck

 

[Matthew Dudley]

...and they won't supply them you need to leave.
If it is a decent shop and most of the guys have late-model cars and trucks don't get persnickety about small stuff, but count your blessings and try to do good work.
Try to not borrow something twice.
QT: I have completed Introduction to... be careful giving old-timers advice..but ask questions and be thankful for answers.

Matthew,
How are you doing? I see that you came to PM yesterday.
Have you specialized in some type of work or all around the shop?
Do you have any advice for the next newbie?
We could use an update.
Buck

Thanks for the response. I just celebrated my first year anniversary with Williams Industries. I am currently over all shipping duties, do some light manual machining, operate CNC as necessary, and have produced one program for our CNC mill.
In school, I have finished my manual classes at Athens Tech and have already took CAD/CAM which required a pair of dice and a link which I made an A on both. I also made an airpowered wobbler engine which has precision fits of slip, snug, and press, tolerances to .0005 and some GD&T.
If I were to give myself advice from the last year, have more confidence in what I do. I still ask questions I should already know the answer to or am not confident in, but I can tell that those are now fewer and that I can hold tolerances better.

 

[Matthew Dudley]

Thanks for the response. I just celebrated my first year anniversary with Williams Industries. I am currently over all shipping duties, do some light manual machining, operate CNC as necessary, and have produced one program for our CNC mill.
In school, I have finished my manual classes at Athens Tech and have already took CAD/CAM which required a pair of dice and a link which I made an A on both. I also made an airpowered wobbler engine which has precision fits of slip, snug, and press, tolerances to .0005 and some GD&T.
If I were to give myself advice from the last year, have more confidence in what I do. I still ask questions I should already know the answer to or am not confident in, but I can tell that those are now fewer and that I can hold tolerances better.

On the original topic, I have already bought a good amount of tools that I will use for the rest of my career. I have two nice rolling toolboxes which I plan on outfitting with one box per machine tool (mill/lathe) and have started to fill them. I recently bought a lot of tools from eBay including 2 indicator sets (Starrett No 196), 2 surface gages, a Starrett 0-1 mic, and several other useful tools. I have also been buying some new metrology tools from MSC including a Mitutoyo 0-4” Outside Mic set and 0-6” depth mic set as well as calipers, thread pitch gages, telescoping gages, and a few others. I am not necessarily stick to the list I originally started the thread on, but have not varied too widely from it either.

 

[ps15]

I'm not reading everyone else's reply but here is my own opinion.
Firstly, not sure why you need redundant measuring tools unless the machines are far apart. Quality inspection tools aren't cheap.
In my xp, you'll want a couple sets of allen keys not to mention a few larger than standard allen keys for 8" mill vises and larger!
Skip the vise handle.
You want a .0005 test indicator and a .0001 indicator.
Skip the taps unless tapping becomes a daily thing.
Don't just buy a bunch of endmills, get specialty ones to bail you out of situations where your employer supplied standard endmills wont work. 3 flute and 2 flute for aluminum, a "downcut" or "right hand reverse helix" endmill.
Skip collets, use your employers unless they are wrecked.
Same for drill chucks.
Buy a box of acid brushes if employer doesn't have any
Skip the surface plate
Files and needle files

You need a magnetic base test indicator holder, flexible
Noga or Shaviv whirly debur scraper tool
A piece of brass round stock for tapping on stuff
An apron to carry calculator and files and you need a 6" scale
Have a 6" scale, files, calculator, and permanent marker on you at all times
Flat stone, round stone

 

[Rangie]

I wouldn't have two complete tool sets, not the best use of space or your wallet really. I'd suggest having one for general/hand tooling and the other one split between gear for your various machines tooling etc?

Useful:

• Dial indicator gauge in a couple of ranges
• 6" Steel ruler
• Retractable pocket-scriber
• Pocket calculator (in addition to a scientific calculator)
• Gauge stand (Magnetic)
• Feeler Gauges
• Digital Calipers
• Carbide tipped tooling and spare inserts (company-supplied?)
• Combination Spanner Set
• Socket Set
• Torx screwdriver/T-handle set
• Spare (dedicated) T-Handle/spanner set to suit your common machines (to avoid dipping into complete "sets")
• Copper/Hide Hammers
• Deadblow Hammer
• Brass bar selection (for drifting or "adjustments")
• Needle and general hand files
• Deburring tool with a couple of different shapes of tips
• Edge finder set
• Engineer's Blue
• Paint pens / Sharpies / Soapstone & Holder

Long -term:

• Outside / Depth / Bore Micrometer Sets
• Surface Gauge
• Sine Bar
• Metric Drills
• Metric Taps & Dies
• Pin Punches
• Easy-Outs
• ER or whichever is your preferential Collet Sets
• Quick-Change toolpost tool holders with your most-used tools set up good to go.
• Morse Taper sleeves (if used)

Just a thought anyway. As you proceed through your training and by time you'll pick up tools, be bought some for your job or be given some by retirees etc, enjoy your time
Alec.

 

[michiganbuck]

Being machine specific is a challenge..one can have a whole toolbox just for surface grinder work. Yes depending on what the shop provides. I had many surface grinder tools that were special, and so not cataloged purchase items.

For a new guy with a year in a shop, he might make a serious study of surface grinding if that spot would be considered a premium pay or job-securing position. Master all grinding talents and when sure enough over to grind a very difficult job to show off talents.
Tallents might include fixturing up a tall or odd-shaped part for grinding, being able to hold a part so as to grind a special aspect of the part, being able to make a special feature to a few millionths of size or a few minutes to an angle., knowing how to quickly wheel dress a radius or an angle, being comfortable using a parting wheel to rough in a part, able to make a part using an existing part as a spotter.

 

[Matthew Dudley]

Thanks for the response everyone, I do appreciate all the advice.
I think I need to point out that I will not necessarily have to buy all the tools I stated in the original post now or soon. I have bought quite a few of them but some I can get through other sources and I will not buy the consumables listed unless absolutely necessary as of now until I start my own shop. I am planning on starting my own shop sometime down the road, probably 5+ years from now. The company I work for now will probably die out within the next 10-15 years due to the owner's age and lack of interest in the company from employees and the owner's family. I am interested in a couple of the equipment if he sells them. I am also planning on receiving training in 5th+ axis. If I do start a shop, it would be similar to the one I work for currently: a small job/short run production shop.