Agie Classic S, wire tension, tank fill / drain issues

[BGL]

A long story shortened, 2008 Agie Classic S. Hard drive failed. Replaced and software reloaded [as far as I know]. Everything seems to be working with these exceptions, yet to make sparks with it. Problem with the wire tension/feed is new, was working before hard drive failure. The tank fill / drain / fill to level, was an issue before the repair. I have little experience operating this machine. I have a lot of experience with cleaning, repairing and just trying to figure out the problems. No actual cutting but have a whole two weeks on an equal vintage Mitsubishi.
I have attempted to document the issues and troubleshooting in a concise format.

Yes, I have been in contact with GF Machining Solutions. I may have overstayed my welcome or they are just overwhelmed. I have been waiting for well over a week for a reply. I will attempt to make contact again tomorrow. For now, I am hoping the PM collective intellect and experience can guide me to what I hope are easy answers.

1) Spool tension – Too sensitive, too much.
Wire was in place so as part of the fresh start I ran wire feed for a minute or so. Water flow, chopper and bin suction working normal. I was preparing to go thru the wire change and calibration procedure per Manual C3.2 pg. 30. Wire cut nicely, went to jog down in Z the wire snatched back on the spool, distinct sound of jockey roller bouncing and thump of spool stopping from fast rotation. Result was a rat’s nest of wire at spool, fixed that and attempted to hand feed. Every time wire tension sensor got to a certain point, the spool pulled back very fast. Scary the first time, fingers near wire. By the fifth time, I knew it was not something I was doing wrong. This was working, impossible now. It is super sensitive and jerks the wire back, even snapped when hand threading by the brake roller. Tight grip, slow rotation.

I did a test. Anchored to spool with tape. With one hand holding the spool and other hand moving the jockey roller. It goes from gentle tugging to fast speed. Holding on I estimate about ten foot pounds of torque. This happens at about half the range of motion. With spool free, moving arm, roller goes from slow rotation to several hundred rpm as if it hit a switch. Intuition tells me the parameters are off, searching around my best guess are these below, as found.

Under CONFIGURATION menu
WIRE tab
SPEED MOTOR SPOOL AT CHANGE COMMAND 150
Acc SPOOL MOTOR AT CHANGE COMMAND 100
DISTANCE bw. BRAKE MOTOR AND WIRE SPOOL 2000
JOCKEY ROLLER FORCE UPPER MECHANIC LIMIT STOP 0.2
JOCKEY ROLLER FORCE UPPER MECHANIC LIMIT STOP 10


2) Tank fill / Fill to operation / Tank Drain
Command: Fill Tank
STOP symbol flashes once. No alarm, no water flow.

Note:
1) Flow check command works, water flows from upper and lower guide, some water flow from rapid fill area but.
2) Moving door up the drain closes. Door down, drain opens. That makes sense to me and I presume verifies function.

I disconnected control air to valve (YV10). I used an air gun to apply pressure into valve piston, works fine with impressive water flow. With line still disconnected, I commanded tank fill. No airflow.
Traced hose back to solenoid #10, top one in the stack. I swapped with the solenoid body below it, and repeated, no airflow. I activated solenoid by pressing on the little green button, got airflow. Reconnected the line, I get an impressive amount of water flow.

I have only a quick scan of the schematics. I suspect no power to it. Tried to check voltage but need better probes. What is the voltage, where does the power come from?


Command: Empty to opening level
… W S DA 88: Request for emptying the work tank to the opening level not possible because already effective already effective
I held the float in the up position. No effect, same alarm.

Command: Empty
… W S DA 89: Request for emptying already effective
I held the float in the up position. No effect, same alarm.

 

[BGL]

Ok, since nobody has replied I will answer myself. Would not be the first time but may be the first in print...

I fixed one issue, the tank fill/drain. After tracing down the schematics to what LEDs is what. Running the commands a few times, I came to the reasoning the float switch is working in reverse. To verify I removed it and held it upside down. Bingo!

One of the smarter young engineers I work with walks up and asks what’s up. I explain the problem and what I discovered. As I am holding the switch and we are both examining it we see there appear to be a pair of pins along the axis of the float. Is that a proximity switch or a reed switch he asks? I don't know I say but if it is a reed switch the pins will be magnetic. As I am answering I grab a small steel washer and place it on the end of the pin. Turning the float over, sure enough it stays. Well, if it’s a reed switch, he says, wouldn’t the POLARITY MATTER** we say simultaneously.

Flash back to a year ago when we first got this machine. It arrived ridden hard and wet, frozen actually but thats another story. I completely dismantled the drain mechanism. Had to shot blast the crust off the bellows. Came oudt nice! I recalled taking off the c clip to clean the float. I put it back on with no consideration to function. A lesson relearned - Sucess, it’s all in the details!

** On further study, it’s the position not the polarity that matters. The magnets are paired in same polarity but positioned to one end of the float. By inverting the float one can change it from NC to NO. So simple.

So, onto the wire feed on Monday. This time I am going to follow the manual to the letter. Because that’s how everyone does it yes?

 

[davemtz]

hi
did you get your machine works?

 

[BGL]

Yes but it is currently mothballed and moved for a large installation. I hope to get back in operation within the year.

 

[agieman]

A long story shortened, 2008 Agie Classic S. Hard drive failed. Replaced and software reloaded [as far as I know]. Everything seems to be working with these exceptions, yet to make sparks with it. Problem with the wire tension/feed is new, was working before hard drive failure. The tank fill / drain / fill to level, was an issue before the repair. I have little experience operating this machine. I have a lot of experience with cleaning, repairing and just trying to figure out the problems. No actual cutting but have a whole two weeks on an equal vintage Mitsubishi.
I have attempted to document the issues and troubleshooting in a concise format.

Yes, I have been in contact with GF Machining Solutions. I may have overstayed my welcome or they are just overwhelmed. I have been waiting for well over a week for a reply. I will attempt to make contact again tomorrow. For now, I am hoping the PM collective intellect and experience can guide me to what I hope are easy answers.

1) Spool tension – Too sensitive, too much.
Wire was in place so as part of the fresh start I ran wire feed for a minute or so. Water flow, chopper and bin suction working normal. I was preparing to go thru the wire change and calibration procedure per Manual C3.2 pg. 30. Wire cut nicely, went to jog down in Z the wire snatched back on the spool, distinct sound of jockey roller bouncing and thump of spool stopping from fast rotation. Result was a rat’s nest of wire at spool, fixed that and attempted to hand feed. Every time wire tension sensor got to a certain point, the spool pulled back very fast. Scary the first time, fingers near wire. By the fifth time, I knew it was not something I was doing wrong. This was working, impossible now. It is super sensitive and jerks the wire back, even snapped when hand threading by the brake roller. Tight grip, slow rotation.

I did a test. Anchored to spool with tape. With one hand holding the spool and other hand moving the jockey roller. It goes from gentle tugging to fast speed. Holding on I estimate about ten foot pounds of torque. This happens at about half the range of motion. With spool free, moving arm, roller goes from slow rotation to several hundred rpm as if it hit a switch. Intuition tells me the parameters are off, searching around my best guess are these below, as found.

Under CONFIGURATION menu
WIRE tab
SPEED MOTOR SPOOL AT CHANGE COMMAND 150
Acc SPOOL MOTOR AT CHANGE COMMAND 100
DISTANCE bw. BRAKE MOTOR AND WIRE SPOOL 2000
JOCKEY ROLLER FORCE UPPER MECHANIC LIMIT STOP 0.2
JOCKEY ROLLER FORCE UPPER MECHANIC LIMIT STOP 10


2) Tank fill / Fill to operation / Tank Drain
Command: Fill Tank
STOP symbol flashes once. No alarm, no water flow.

Note:
1) Flow check command works, water flows from upper and lower guide, some water flow from rapid fill area but.
2) Moving door up the drain closes. Door down, drain opens. That makes sense to me and I presume verifies function.

I disconnected control air to valve (YV10). I used an air gun to apply pressure into valve piston, works fine with impressive water flow. With line still disconnected, I commanded tank fill. No airflow.
Traced hose back to solenoid #10, top one in the stack. I swapped with the solenoid body below it, and repeated, no airflow. I activated solenoid by pressing on the little green button, got airflow. Reconnected the line, I get an impressive amount of water flow.

I have only a quick scan of the schematics. I suspect no power to it. Tried to check voltage but need better probes. What is the voltage, where does the power come from?


Command: Empty to opening level
… W S DA 88: Request for emptying the work tank to the opening level not possible because already effective already effective
I held the float in the up position. No effect, same alarm.

Command: Empty
… W S DA 89: Request for emptying already effective
I held the float in the up position. No effect, same alarm.

which float are you holding up?

 

[BGL]

The one on the upper end of the drain. It detects the upper fill level.

I reassembled it upside down. The polarity of the magnets matters. It's a reed switch not a proximity.

Hard learned lessons are hard to forget.

 

[davemtz]

I managed to get a spark and a slight cut, but it still does not detect the wire and after using it for 5 minutes I get an alarm that does not allow me to continue working. I can't find anything in the manual. Thank you

hi
did you get your machine works?