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Aligning the ways on a totally worn out Monoset TC Grinder

Richard King

Diamond
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Location
Cottage Grove, MN 55016
Hello everyone. I wrote this article for my Facebook forum today. I thought I would share it as it's a good learning experience that can be used on other machines. If anyone cares to join my private forum on facebook, it's under my company name. "King-Way Scraping Consultants" we have over 800 members and we only talk about rebuilding and scraping. No nonsense allowed. Here is what I posted there today: Yesterday I wrote about how to scrape double V and not a V and flat way.

Years ago I used to teach the apprentices at Eastern Repair and Fabrication in Christiansburg VA. One day I got a call from them and they had a real issue with a Cinc. Monoset Tool and Cutter Grinder another rebuilder had rebuilt for a new customer.
I flew down and took a look. The other rebuilder had milled the ways. Monosets are usually totally worn out when the T&C company gets them rebuilt, so I am assuming the other rebuilder saw the wear and said we have to mill these ways. Never indicated the ways in or were clueless how to machine.
Anyway when I got there and started to check it out, Roger at Eastern said when it was assembled with the gibs tight the feed screws were so tight you couldn't move the slides.
The other rebuilder also milled those clearance surfaces that I eluded too in the double V thread. So they were screwed and had no way to align from those original clearance surfaces.
I sat there being a detective trying to figure out what to do??? Then it dawned on me. The feed screws! The feed screws brackets and casting holes were bored at the factory and were original. I had them make some test bars we installed where the feed screws went and then we set the slides on a mill, indicated the top and sides of the test bars and milled the ways, tops, clearance surfaces and dovetails. The ways had been milled so much we had to glue on Rulon 142 (turcite) to compensate.

So there are a lot of ways you new Detectives can rebuild things. Rich
 
Seems understandable.... Apparently the ways were milled (and ground, I hope), which lowered the table etc quite a bit and maybe not in a way aligned with the original ways, but the feedscrews were not realigned sufficiently to the new position (and maybe "direction") of the ways, so they bound up.

It would need either the sliding parts raised up (rulon or other material), new nuts, or the screws moved down if the other actions are not possible or not preferred. But it seems the "rebuilders" did not do any of those things.
 
Seems understandable.... Apparently the ways were milled (and ground, I hope), which lowered the table etc quite a bit and maybe not in a way aligned with the original ways, but the feedscrews were not realigned sufficiently to the new position (and maybe "direction") of the ways, so they bound up.

It would need either the sliding parts raised up (rulon or other material), new nuts, or the screws moved down if the other actions are not possible or not preferred. But it seems the "rebuilders" did not do any of those things.

It well may be and the simplest explanation is that I ( myself ) failed to from the post as written. Thank you for your effort to clarify, none the less.
 
Seems understandable.... Apparently the ways were milled (and ground, I hope), which lowered the table etc quite a bit and maybe not in a way aligned with the original ways, but the feedscrews were not realigned sufficiently to the new position (and maybe "direction") of the ways, so they bound up.

It would need either the sliding parts raised up (rulon or other material), new nuts, or the screws moved down if the other actions are not possible or not preferred. But it seems the "rebuilders" did not do any of those things.

Jerry, Eastern Repair had certified Engineers and had Journeymen rebuilders too. Your not a Journeyman rebuilder so how can you comment? You people love to argue, my God. On a Monoset Grinder it is made by Cincinnati Milicron. And by aligning off the feed screws the machine was repaired and the customer was happy!!!
 
Jerry, Eastern Repair had certified Engineers and had Journeymen rebuilders too. Your not a Journeyman rebuilder so how can you comment?

I thought JST was agreeing with you. Why the poop?
Lets be real, milliing or cutting the ways and not moving screw mounts sort of falls under "Duh" and I carry no card in this field.
It a good example and very welcome as many will not think of such.
Perhaps you react a bit too quickly. We mostly know who you are and your reputation to excellence.
As long term involved please don't be that grumpy old guy.
Bob
 
Jerry, Eastern Repair had certified Engineers and had Journeymen rebuilders too. Your not a Journeyman rebuilder so how can you comment? You people love to argue, my God. On a Monoset Grinder it is made by Cincinnati Milicron. And by aligning off the feed screws the machine was repaired and the customer was happy!!!


What's the issue.....? I was replying to Orbital77 anyhow, you seem to have taken it as some comment to you. Not so, my friend.

Orbital seems to have deleted that post and replied again later.

As for being or not being a journeyman rebuilder, this entire forum would be pretty damn quiet if such were the only ones allowed in.

It does not take a union card to see that if it got rebuilt, and jammed up when used afterward, something was not done right, engineers etc notwithstanding. And your mention of aligning off the screws suggests that the error was in not keeping the axis of the ways the same as before.

I willingly state that while I do have experience DOING the work, I am not an expert, and carry no card. Just another "dumb engineer"! :)
 
Lets be real, milliing or cutting the ways and not moving screw mounts sort of falls under "Duh" and I carry no card in this field.

Bob

Yes, it does.
That seems to be why initially I did not understand what is going on. I should've asked for clarification - my fault entirely.
 
It seemed to me that Richard's original post referenced two problems, 1) that the screws would bind, and 2) that it was difficult to figure out what should be corrected with all original surfaces now modified (buggered).

In a way, the bit about the screws binding was just a red herring. Yes, that's the symptom that showed there was a problem, but the fix he addressed was the question about how to find original reference points again. It could have said, "The rebuild was clearly faulty and we were stumped about how to fix it without any reference surfaces to go by." That's where the detective bit came in. What can you possibly use to find square and straight again without a reference? So the leadscrew bores could be that reference giving you two planes to check.

Jerry took up the point about adjustments needed to other parts as a result of lowering or otherwise moving the table. I don't know why that would tick off Rich unless it was because Jerry failed to say "What a brilliant deduction, Sherlock".

Anyway, both points are justifiably made by Rich and others.
 
It is always so easy to get our panties in a twist now and then. I am as guilty as anyone else, but over the last several years I have worked hard to get a bit better at watching what I type. Writing is the only time you will ever have to read what you write and think about it before you send it.

All is well however, thanks for sharing Richard, hard to keep up with everything and I admit I just dont have time to read everything. We are all adults here, so no reason we cant have a bit of give and take. No one gets through life without a little forgiveness now and then.

Charles
 
Hello,
Very interesting read. Thank you. I have one question: Do you then only assume that the lead screw and the ways originally are aligned with the the spindle axis? For me I would liked to have controlled both before milling anything on the machine. Thanks and all the best.
Fredrik


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When the machine was made by the machine builder they bored the hole. They may not be perfect with in tenths, but they are probably with-in .002" and they were scraped. When they built and when you are rebuilding they need to be scraped in steps and you need to worry about the "sag" factor when testing for squareness. Although the factory would now how much to scrape them as they have made hundreds if not thousands machines. If you have only rebuilt a handful of hem or 1. You have to test them on each level. They have 7 axis's or slides you have toc contend with.
 
When the machine was made by the machine builder they bored the hole. They may not be perfect with in tenths, but they are probably with-in .002" and they were scraped. When they built and when you are rebuilding they need to be scraped in steps and you need to worry about the "sag" factor when testing for squareness. Although the factory would now how much to scrape them as they have made hundreds if not thousands machines. If you have only rebuilt a handful of hem or 1. You have to test them on each level. They have 7 axis's or slides you have toc contend with.

Very interesting. Thanks for the answer.
Have a nice weekend.
Fredrik


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Fredrik, thanks for posting, I had to look up Aland Islands. Getting machines can be hard in some places, I imagine an island is even harder yet to find good usable machines.

Charles
 
Fredrik, thanks for posting, I had to look up Aland Islands. Getting machines can be hard in some places, I imagine an island is even harder yet to find good usable machines.

Charles

Hi Charles,
I’ve forgotten to update my user page. I’m a Swede residing in Switzerland. Machines are very easy to find here. Although the prices can be a bit high.
Fredrik


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