Almost had a new B&S horizontal mill

[Ruppster]

Well, I almost had a new toy. Tuesday morning I placed a bid on a B&S No. 2A universal horizontal milling machine. I currently have an older No. 2 Universal that started off as being driven via an overhead belt but has an electric motor conversion mounted on top (pic of it attached for those that love pics). The one I bid on was built with an electric motor from the start. So it would have been a younger brother to my current mill. When bidding was over I ended up as the highest bidder. Even received email notification that I won. Four hours later they told me the item was removed as it was listed in error, it wasn't supposed to be sold. This didn't pass the smell test to me as the final price was really cheap. I suspected it was pulled due to the final bid not being high enough, even though this was a no reserve lot. My fear was confirmed this morning when I called the business that was closing about it to see what their final asking price was. They openly admitted to removing it due to what I thought, they wanted more money. The auctioneer was even there and went on to admit to having remove 5 or 6 other items for the same thing and they had some guy coming out today to give them an offer on the stuff. I brought up that it these items had no reserve, that that was illegal. But the auctioneer claimed it was legal as they didn't list the auction as being absolute and Rule 20 of the auction says they have the right to remove an item at any time (even after the auction closed) for any reason.

So this got me to doing a little searching on the WWW. I found Florida statute 468.388, Conduct of an auction. In it was:
(7) At the beginning of an auction must be announced the terms of bidding and sale and whether the sale is with reserve, without reserve, or absolute or if a minimum bid is required. If the sale is absolute and has been announced or advertised as such, an article or lot may not be withdrawn from sale once a bid has been accepted. If no bid is received within a reasonable time, the item or lot may be withdrawn.

I thought no reserve implied absolute, but I guess not. I did report this to Proxibid though, as this is at least an abuse of the no reserve auction option in my opinion.

 

[ncjeeper]

Did you file a complaint with the attorney general?

 

[john.k]

I had a complaint about a big auctioneer.......I was invited to present the complaint to the "State auctioneers and agents complaints tribunal".......guess who was the chairman of the Tribunal?........the auctioneer who I had the complaint against.

 

[Shipp]

Sorry to hear that. Dirt bags will be dirt bags.

 

[tomjelly]

well, which auction company was it?

 

[Hodge]

Just for curiosity what was your bid?

 

[Ruppster]

Did you file a complaint with the attorney general?

Not yet but at the moment I'm not sure if they broke any laws. The wording in the Florida statute sounds like they may have the right to do what they did. I'm still trying to research this issue.

well, which auction company was it?

Moecker Auctions Inc. in southeast Florida.

Just for curiosity what was your bid?

My max bid was higher but since the only other bidder on the lot had a max of $1.25 my bid at close was $1.50. That's why they pulled it. I won a second B&S that was an older plain No. 2 horizontal mill for $11 but they didn't pull that. I told them I only bid on it because I won the No. 2A and if they were going to shaft me on the first item they could shove the second one where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[john.k]

I wouldnt have sold it either ,for less than scrap.......a silly bid like that ,youd get laughed out of court.......Last year I was scrapping lotsa machines ,and getting silly offers,when Id mention scrap was$400/ton.......Id be accused of BS............a mill is going to weigh over 1 ton,under 2 ton,.....so there is at least a coupla hundred in scrap...............and Id reckon thats who is coming to look ...the scrappies.

 

[Scottl]

It sounds as if the auction house covered their ass in the fine print. Most of them know well the laws in the states they operate in and have their lawyers design the rules to look absolute but have an escape clause built in under rule 20.

 

[Ruppster]

a silly bid like that ,youd get laughed out of court.....

With an auction it takes 2 to tango. It's not my fault my dance partner dropped out at a buck and a quarter. As I said my max bid was higher.

 

[marka12161]

I had an opposite experience. An auction was selling what looked to be a nice small HBM. I peppered the auctioneer with questions about footprint, power, general condition etc as it was a long ways from me. When the auction started, i chose not to bid and watched it sell for $1000. The next day the auctioneer called me and said the deal fell through and asked if i was still interested. I took a shot and bought it for $500 and paid about $2500 to have it rigged and shipped. The jury is still out on wheter or not it was a good thing for me. It fits my space perfectly but needs some work. I enjoy the puttering so i really don't mind and it makes for great storage.

 

[JoeE.]

I was collecting old, brass steam locomotive whistles there for a long time.

Ebay was where it was at back then, lots of listings.

I belonged to an old Yahoo group that dealt with that type of thing.

Anyhow, I'd watched a big 6 inch (diameter) 3 chime whistle, of Norfolk Western railroad heritage, sell for $4,500 dollars on the 'bay... big whistles brought/bring big money. 2" pipe inlet. I longed for a whistle that big. I've got the means to blow it on compressed air.

One day I was perusing a regional buy/sell/trade newspaper, going through the thing, looking at the auctions. (circa. 1999/2000, I believe)... well, I flipped the page and there was a two page auction sale bill for "The Boxcar Willie Museum" contents.

Nice color pictures of things for sale... and what caught my eye was a big, 3 chime brass locomotive whistle, front and center. He had a big collection of whistles.

So, knowing what they went for on the 'bay, I called the auctioneer and and asked if I could have them bid for me, since I couldn't attend in person. "Sure", they said.

I specifically told them that my max bid was $4,500. The auction was 2 weeks in the future, so I waited anxiously for 15 days for the results of the bidding.

I got to work that morning, waited til about 9a.m. and called the auctioneer company and told them who I was and what I bid on, and asked if I was the high bidder?

The guy goes "oh, congratulations... you were the high bidder on the big whistle".

I inquired "what was my final bid amount?"

He says "Well, looks like the final bid was $4,500"

I about swallowed my tongue... there is no way in hell that someone in that crowd ran that thing up that high. I'd bet a hundred dollars that they started the bidding out at my max. Cocksuckers....

Anyway, I paid, got the whistle.. played with it a while and that was that. Not a lot you can do with them except look at them.

I had a little buyers remorse, mainly because I thought "nobody in their right mind is ever going to want to pay that much for this thing."

Well, back to the Yahoo group thing. One day I was in a discussion with others on there about this type of whistle...mentioned I had one, and this new member...a young, teenage kid gets on there and asks if I'd like to sell it?

I said that I would. He asks what I'd like for it, so I told him what I paid for it and that I just want to recoup my investment. His reply was "let me ask my dad".

I figured that was the end of that.
Well, the next time I looked at that conversation, there was a comment in there that his dad had written that told me that they'd take it, and asked if I could wrap it up good and ship it to them... and they'd send me a check if I agreed to do that.

I agreed, they sent a check, and I did the best job of wrapping up a big, heavy metal object I could. I didn't want any complications!!!
Check cleared, they got their whistle, and all was well. That boy has one swell father!!!!

 

[john.k]

I know its silly,but I once bought a barge with a 30 ton mobile crane on it for $1,and the auctioneers were glad to get my name on the sale agreement.

 

[animal12]

Sometimes your the windshield , sometimes your the bug .
animal

 

[john.k]

One of my favourite auctioneers (not) in this town used to pull all kinds of strokes with limit bids.......he would shut his eyes while he bid an absentee up to the limit without another bid......I once complained to him about lots going missing after the sale .....he says ,just so it goes out the gate is all I care......Anyhoo,later he was jailed for a part in a massive art fraud....it was claimed 90% of the art he auctioned was fakes.

 

[cyanidekid]

I was sure you meant 125.00 and 150.00, as in "a buck and a half", but then you said you were the winning bid on the other item for 11.$ man you are one cheap bastard to make a stink over that, lol!

for some items that are difficult or expensive to remove (the barge mentioned above for instance), or that are potentially otherwise liabilities (asbestos, PCB's or other toxins or hazards likely for instance), it is common to accept a bid for 1.$, but a 2500 lb mill isn't in that category.

if it was really worth something to you as a milling machine, its a better strategy to play ball. "ok, 1.50 is a silly price, I'm prepared to offer what the scrapper is offering, plus 100$" , but DO know the current price of scrap (in this case oversize and iron/ steel mix) and that the scrapper is going to need to make some money to haul it to the yard.

in todays market around here, think they would pay about 125-150$ at the yard, so scrapper would offer 50-75 max , so for 200...

 

[PDW]

I was sure you meant 125.00 and 150.00, as in "a buck and a half", but then you said you were the winning bid on the other item for 11.$ man you are one cheap bastard to make a stink over that, lol!

for some items that are difficult or expensive to remove (the barge mentioned above for instance), or that are potentially otherwise liabilities (asbestos, PCB's or other toxins or hazards likely for instance), it is common to accept a bid for 1.$, but a 2500 lb mill isn't in that category.

if it was really worth something to you as a milling machine, its a better strategy to play ball. "ok, 1.50 is a silly price, I'm prepared to offer what the scrapper is offering, plus 100$" , but DO know the current price of scrap (in this case oversize and iron/ steel mix) and that the scrapper is going to need to make some money to haul it to the yard.

in todays market around here, think they would pay about 125-150$ at the yard, so scrapper would offer 50-75 max , so for 200...

Yeah, that was my thinking basically.

Try to pay a silly price, get a bad result.

Dunno about the specific auction and ability to bid but I'd have started at say $100 or $200 and gone from there.

Silly bid prices are for things you don't really care if you get or not.

PDW

 

[Ruppster]

Yeah, that was my thinking basically.

Try to pay a silly price, get a bad result.

Dunno about the specific auction and ability to bid but I'd have started at say $100 or $200 and gone from there.

Silly bid prices are for things you don't really care if you get or not.

PDW

So how can I get my bid up to a reasonable amount if no one else is bidding against me? As I said before, with an auction it takes 2 to tango and my dance partner dropped out at $1.25. My max bid was above scrap metal prices, so how am I to blame for being "silly" if I don't have a dance partner to get my bid up higher?

Had they been honest from the start and gave me first rights to negotiate a reasonable price I would have been fine with that. But they had to lie and tell me it wasn't supposed to be sold only to offer it locally after the fact. They yanked a $1.50 bid yet let me keep the other B&S mill that went for $11. So they pulled this b.s. over $10? They should have set a higher starting bid or used the reserve option if they already had a price in mind.

 

[Greg Menke]

Deleted argumentative posts

 

[adammil1]

So how can I get my bid up to a reasonable amount if no one else is bidding against me? As I said before, with an auction it takes 2 to tango and my dance partner dropped out at $1.25. My max bid was above scrap metal prices, so how am I to blame for being "silly" if I don't have a dance partner to get my bid up higher?

Had they been honest from the start and gave me first rights to negotiate a reasonable price I would have been fine with that. But they had to lie and tell me it wasn't supposed to be sold only to offer it locally after the fact. They yanked a $1.50 bid yet let me keep the other B&S mill that went for $11. So they pulled this b.s. over $10? They should have set a higher starting bid or used the reserve option if they already had a price in mind.

So why not just go there and make them a fair offer?

I just bought a great live steam locomotive on Ebay. The thing was an American style locomotive for sale in the UK so I don't think it was worth as much over there as the price was frankly very low.

The seller at first was unreasonable with shipping insisting it must go on a pallet not in its 2 separate carrier cases. That screwed me on shipping to the USA so I met his opening bid and got out bid and didn't go a dime higher. Seller emails me right before the end of the auction asks me if I am going to bid. I tell him already did but can't go higher due to his insistence on shipping via a pallet.

He has a change in mind and tells me it can go in its carrying cases. That lowers my shipping cost a ton but by then the auction is over. By the next morning I'd you believe the seller's story the other buyer backs out. A song and dance happens the thing is relisted. Before it's finally mine there's a few more shady negotiating tactics (maybe some would even consider them lies) but in the end we come to an agreement on Ebay's make an offer and now it's mine.

Locomotive shows up and so far it's exceeded all expectations.

At this point I am pretty sure I was shilled by seller. I doubt he was being fully truthful with some of the other offers he said here had but in the end we got to a price that both parties were happy with which is all that matters. Now he's gone and this awesome engine is mine. In fact in my case with the engine in my shop I still can't believe how good of a deal I got. All that's left now is seeing how she'll run at the track. I even left positive feedback!

So in the end my thoughts are if you really want the machine either swallow your pride and make an offer that the other party is happy with or move on to the next one.