An old style metric micrometer, and an off brand inch micrometer (McGrath)

[JST]

An old style metric micrometer, and an off brand metric micrometer (McGrath)

The old style is really a clunky old style.

It is metric, and actually seems to agree very well with my newer metric mics, at least for small measurements.

Oddly, the dial on it is marked backwards, so a measurement of 0,39mm is actually shown as 0,12mm on the dial as assembled. The screw is RH, and advancing it reads increasing numbers on the dial, as the space between anvils decreases.

It is possible that the dial was to go on the other way, although I have not checked to see if it can be reversed. Doing that would seem to make it very hard to read.

It seems to be marked on the reverse of the scale as "Columbus" or "Columbia" followed by indecipherable, and under that "Indianapolis" (both in all caps). You have to remove the scale to read all the text.

Backside of the unit. I have no clue as to whether this is an earlier unit, or a later unit that for some reason is made in this style, either because that suited the use, or because the market was very conservative.

It being metric is another interesting factor, as metric mics have not been exactly thick on the ground until more recently, at least in most industries and usages.

The other mic is also metric, and standard design. The oddity in its case is just that it is marked "McGrath St Paul" apparently as the maker. I have never heard of that as a maker, and I wonder if it may be a dealer's name who had mics marked with their name.

 

[Robert Lang]

The oddity in its case is just that it is marked "McGrath St Paul" apparently as the maker. I have never heard of that as a maker, and I wonder if it may be a dealer's name who had mics marked with their name.

They were the maker.

Rob

 

[L Vanice]

Watch repair people have used metric measure for over 150 years. Watch lathe collets, from circa 1875 to the present, are commonly sold in order hole sizes marked in .1 mm increments. A metric micrometer is the best way to select the collet to fit an item to be held in the lathe. That said, watch repair people are generally not well paid, so they tend to avoid buying expensive tools if they can get by without. I think most simply stuck the part into the collet holes until they found one that seemed close enough. I remember in 1959 I had my first watch lathe and wanted to buy a second collet for it, to hold 1/8" shank mounted points. I was quite a novice at watch work and did not know much about millimeters or that the collets were sized in millimeters. I let the local watch shop guy decide what collet to order for me. I saw him take a 1/8" shank tool and stick in some of his collet set until he was able to force it into a number 31. I still have that number 31 collet he got for me, but many decades ago I realized that the correct choice would have been a number 32.

I have found a very few metric micrometers, usually the 13 mm capacity, over the years when getting tools that came from a watch repairer. I think, like watch lathe slide rests, most repairmen did without. And it was almost unheard of for a watch shop to have a full set of lathe collets. I remember around 1964 finding a watch material dealer who would sell me new collets for $1 each, a bit cheaper than the catalog prices back then. I did not buy a set of 50 because I was saving for a car and would rather buy a pile of $5 antique clocks or something than spend a fortune on a set of collets.

Larry

 

[JST]

They were the maker.

Rob

The only data I can find is from here, and suggests they were in business in 1904, no end date. I grew up in St Paul, but would have had no reason back then to notice McGrath.

Point taken on metric mics, just reinforces what I have seen, which is two older (non-chinese) metric mics in 30 years of going to sales here. I bought both of them.

The "clunky" mic is a real puzzler.... No clue about "Columbia". Searches come to this thread, and the "Columbia Club" in Indy.... end of story.

 

[Jim Christie]

JST,
There were some older threads on this forum that showed some dial micrometers and dial thickness gauges similar in style to yours.
I can't seem to turn up any in a quick forum search .
I tried one for Steel mill Micrometer but that didn't bring up what I was looking for
I think Rivett608 ,Asquith ,and perhaps the late Antique Mac and some others had posted pictures of them that perhaps were on Photbucket so may not be viewable now.
Maybe someone will remember and turn up a link.
Regards,
Jim

 

[PeteM]

They were the maker.

Rob

Rob - curious where you learned that?

As to the "India . . polis" mic -- it looks crude enough to have been made in a placed better known as India City? Looks like no adjustment for the anvil (?), a crude casting, ordinary screws as locks, that backward scale, etc. Most anyone capable of crude sand casting and basic stamping/engraving and knurling could have made it.

Jerry - is it surely Columbia or perhaps Columbus that's marked? There's a Columbus, Indiana not too far away from Indianapolis - a tiny town famed for its architecture.

A guess, given the backward-reading and non-adjustable markings, is that very few were made -- with no demand for a second batch? Would be cool if someone actually knew more . . .

 

[Robert Lang]

Rob - curious where you learned that?

I did research on the company at the Minnesota Historical Society in St Paul a long time ago.
They started in the early 1940's, during WW2, to make machinist tools and other items.
A lot went to the military. I use to find a lot of their tools here in Minneapolis at estate and garage sales.
They are very common up here. They also made cigarette lighters for the military.
From a 1944 industrial publication;
" Write on your business letterhead for the new McGrath St. Paul Precision Tool catalog , showing our complete line."

They seem to have quit making machinist tools in the late 1950's or early 1960's.

Rob

 

[JST]

......

As to the "India . . polis" mic -- it looks crude enough to have been made in a placed better known as India City? Looks like no adjustment for the anvil (?), a crude casting, ordinary screws as locks, that backward scale, etc. Most anyone capable of crude sand casting and basic stamping/engraving and knurling could have made it.

Jerry - is it surely Columbia or perhaps Columbus that's marked? There's a Columbus, Indiana not too far away from Indianapolis - a tiny town famed for its architecture.

A guess, given the backward-reading and non-adjustable markings, is that very few were made -- with no demand for a second batch? Would be cool if someone actually knew more . . .

If you look closely at the photo, you can see a very light "NA" between "INDIA" and "POLIS".

Columbus is also the home of Cummins Diesel, I believe, which is HOW the famous architects happened to build there. I travel to Crawfordsville, and have intended to go to Columbus, but have not yet.

Looking at the thing, I think the dial could have been put on the other way and not be too clumsy to read. The knob may screw on so that the dial might be reversable. I have not even tried. And the anvil is definitely adjustable with a screw, and a screw lock.

So not "that" bad, but clearly clumsy and a very old type. I recall seeing those threads on the other similar pieces, and cannot find them either. I don't remember any details other than a vague impression of the pics.

 

[PeteM]

The "India polis" wasn't meant seriously. It just seemed to fit, given that the stamping was that bad.

Here's a link to a somewhat similar mic discussed here earlier:

Early micrometer

 

[Peter S]

Is the first micrometer simply a primitive sheetmetal type?

 

[rivett608]

These are sometimes referred to as “top reading” mics. As said above they were for sheet metal or other things that were flat and too large to flip over. Slocomb and Brown And Sharpe made them. Also they were popular in Europe. I have a bunch in metric and yes I did a post ages ago. The name “Columbus” is interesting. A number of companies that offered cheaper machinist tools from Germany often had them marked “Columbus” or “Columbia”. My guess is they though this name on them would help them sell in the US. Some tools were also marked with an American city, I think just as today a dealer could order a bunch of foreign tools marked with what ever name you wanted.

As for it being metric, as Larry says some trades just used metric, even back then. My guess is this mic is about a 100 years old.

Nice find.

 

[JST]

what is with the reverse reading dial? That seems very odd and not useful.

 

[Asquith]

The ugly micrometer is of the species which I call rolling mill micrometers, having a dial and deep throat. It was important to be able to take quick and early readings of thickness on a moving sheet or plate before several hundred feet were rolled to the wrong thickness. A ‘clock face’ shows at a glance how close the thickness is to the requirement.

I have several examples by various makers, none of whom favoured the challenge of a reverse-reading dial (combined with a normal-reading scale!).

I, too have been trying to figure the maker’s name - Columbus, Columbia, even Plumb, general steel companies and mills in Indianapolis, with no success. Of course it is possible that the piece of metal was recycled. Might I suggest that removing the screws for a better look at the name would not destroy its value?!

Based on the font of the stamped numbers, I would say definitely made in the USA, not imported.

 

[JST]

Already did remove and take a look. COLUMB is what is stamped, and after that spaces and then a "5" or "S", etc. Other than that, what you see in the pic is what I see also.

I suppose nothing prevents the markings on the back from being stamped on by a dealer or importer. I cannot be sure, but it looks a bit as if the stamping of the text was after plating, but the scale marks were put on before plating.

I feel quite sure it is NOT a rolling mill type. Those universally have a handle and are larger. This is a 25mm mic, and is only maybe 50 or so mm in any dimension other than the screw. Cannot see fiddling with the tiny thing on hot metal.

A plain sheet metal mic? Sure, although being metric is a little odd for that, at least in the US. Sheet metal gauges in the USA are not metric at all, they bear little relation to anything, actually.

The reverse reading is so ridiculous that I have to think the dial should have been on the other way, or that someone stamped the numbers on it backwards, although that error should have been caught immediately upon checking it.

It does appear the dial is not soldered to the shaft, and the rope knurled knob likely comes off. In the reversed position the dial would still be quite readable due to the offset position of the scale.

 

[NEPA Green]

Re: McGrath Cope shows McGrath ST Paul CO. as "Founded in 1946 by John B. McGrath and Edward J McGrath". ..."and had disappeared by 1953."

 

[JST]

Here is the anvil adjustment.

Notice that the size of the unit would put your fingers pretty close to the hot metal if used as a check on the rolling mill line. Not at all handy with gloves on. Would be OK in the storage areas, just a bit hard to carry in a pocket.

Also, notice that the dial would be readable from this side if it were reversed from how it is now.

And view of the dial mount. Both this and the knob side show a gap, so the dial is apparently not fastened to either by any permanent means like solder, brazing, etc..

 

[Cyclotronguy]

I have a 6" / 150mm vernier caliper by this maker that was govt issue in the 1950's, appears identical to a Starrett 122.