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Antique lathe

JDM-oldschool

Plastic
Joined
Jun 2, 2022
I also found a solution for the Lathe key. All that you can buy today are too big. But I found out that the square of a thread tap fits perfectly.
So I ordered a cheap set of 2, will cut and braze it into a socket, that should work well:

IMG_20220716_133737.jpg
 

thermite

Diamond
You are totally right, it could still be younger. But anyway it is just the patent of the chuck. And this is the largest and most "modern" looking chuck of all that came with the lathe. In principle the lathe itself can still be older.

I think the second from left might be the original one. Maybe after cleaning that I can find some more information:
View attachment 369200
I get the gut feeling that this machine was not likely to have ever been subject to over-stress abuse. Closely held. Too precious to its few minders.

Fair chance that ALL of those workholders can "come good" if carefully cleaned up.

Surprised to not see even one 4-Jaw independent in the mix, but those are not expensve in small sizes @ low RPM ratings.
 

thermite

Diamond
I also found a solution for the Lathe key. All that you can buy today are too big. But I found out that the square of a thread tap fits perfectly.
So I ordered a cheap set of 2, will cut and braze it into a socket, that should work well:

View attachment 369201
Give that a re-think.
A key should be weaker than the chuck part it mates to.
I reach into my extensive stash of US and Metric keyway stock, instead.

IF/AS/WHEN failure is induced?
The cheaply replaceable part should "fail safe", first. Not the hard to replace part.

One THAT small can be file-formed off round rod in a few minutes, torch heat-treated about as fast. No welding required.
 

JDM-oldschool

Plastic
Joined
Jun 2, 2022
Give that a re-think.
A key should be weaker than the chuck part it mates to.
I reach into my extensive stash of US and Metric keyway stock, instead.

IF/AS/WHEN failure is induced?
The cheaply replaceable part should "fail safe", first. Not the hard to replace part.

One THAT small can be file-formed off round rod in a few minutes, torch heat-treated about as fast. No welding required.

Very good point! I thought a softer square that wears might do more damage than one that stays in shape.

It´s about 5,3mm so a 6mm key could be modified to fit.
 

JDM-oldschool

Plastic
Joined
Jun 2, 2022
I get the gut feeling that this machine was not likely to have ever been subject to over-stress abuse. Closely held. Too precious to its few minders.

Fair chance that ALL of those workholders can "come good" if carefully cleaned up.

Surprised to not see even one 4-Jaw independent in the mix, but those are not expensve in small sizes @ low RPM ratings.

I guess for this the cathead was used. At some point if i have a use for it I will get a small one.
 

thermite

Diamond
At some point if i have a use for it
Cracks me up!

Used a 3-Jaw, self OFF centering "apprentice chuck" for a project, 1957, at a bud's Dad's home,

Used another for a whole week at JR HS 1960? ...until the pair of 4-J I had the instructor agree to order arrived.

Used a 3-Jaw, self OFF centering chuck at a Day job, 1973, until the 4-J I had the owner order arrived.

OWNED one 3-Jaw for over a year, idle ,NOT used... that had crawled in under the door on the Cazeneuve lathe when I bought it. FINALLY convinced a PM member to take it for free, crating and shipping on my dime.

I think that was all as to torture?

Point of pride, 78th year, that the only "3 jaws" under MY roof are called Jacobs or Llambrich or such... and are DRILL CHUCKS! Even the dedicated chuck for my Dividing Head is a 4-jaw independent.

It isn't just the never-QUITE-right centering issue at all. A four-jaw has almost exactly DOUBLE the maximum GRIP FORCE of a scroll-actuated 3-Jaw. When you chose to use all of it.

Annnnd it is not limited to gripping only round, triangular, hex, or some other multiple of 3 sided regular polygon.

A 4-Jaw can grip rounds just fine. Center as perfectly as your personal level of "give a damn" supports. Even when worn to bloody flinders.

A 4-jaw can also grip "irregular" assymetrical, and NOT 'round' atall..such as a freakin' carburetor casting, crank-lever arm, oddly shaped plate, eccentric disk, plate-cam, or a cast-brass valve body.

Need to put an O-ring goove inside the bore of a raised boss off of one CORNER of a cast cover plate? 4-jaw it. Center the BORE on center of rotation. The rest of the plate swings around that point "wherever".

Bet you already "have a use for it". Far the more uses than for a 3-Jaw "round-stuff-mostly."

Because a 4-jaw does "round" so much BETTER than a 3-jaw ... just for 'openers' to all the REST of its near-universal adaptability.

You just didn't know that!

NOW you do!

Mind.. I'm no masochist about dialing-in roundstock.
I have 'several' families of collets for my lathes (and mills) as well:

5C, 2J, ER 40, ER 20, Rubberflex 9XX, Burnerd Multisize, Hardinge step/pot, Breakhart internal expandng, and sets of expanding mandrels for 'tween center working.
.
"Tool whore?'

Bet your sweet A** Iyam!

Reaction off the back of being so barefoot poor as a kid I only had one size of hammer with which to fix the whole dam' world. Or so it seemed at the time.

Keep buying tools, I'll be poor AGAIN as well. But WELL TOOLED POOR!

:)
 
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JDM-oldschool

Plastic
Joined
Jun 2, 2022
I totally agree with you!

There are just a few things that have to be sorted out first. The worn crosssled spindles, the worn out tailstock and no micrometer collars are things to take care of first.
And then I first need to get an adapter for a new chuck made somewhere, as my machine can´t cut threads.

Until then I will have to live with what I have. I am already happy that the spindle is not too far off center too much.
 

thermite

Diamond
Very good point! I thought a softer square that wears might do more damage than one that stays in shape.

It´s about 5,3mm so a 6mm key could be modified to fit.
Interesting that it doesn't hit 5 mm, as on some European square-socket goods I have.

Could be the chuck was US or British made. The UK was still using human-friendly "Imperial" measuring system in that era, not yet as precisely agreed with what by virtue of abandonment & inheritance is now called the "US" inch.

I do not recall when the last use of the old French "ligne" was, either, as Swiss FRENCH side of Schweiz was a noted center of metalworking expertise [1], and KEPT the "ligne" in the horology trade.... perhaps even unto the present-day?

"As American as baseball, hot dogs, Apple pie, and Chevrolet" is a funny.

All are imports.

:)

As WE are!

Louis Chevrolet (surname means "one who tends goats") and his brothers from Switzerland.
 

thermite

Diamond
... my machine can´t cut threads.
Yes, it can do. "Chasing" rig can be fabbed to duplicate an existing thread from a sample by making it the master. Sore tedious when not already equipped with the blitz-fast proper rig (Hardinge, and not-only). But you probably only need to do it once .. or TWICE.. to make and fit a backplate.

Park that thought as "last-resort".

"With any luck" odd as OLD lathe spindle threads CAN be.. your one MAY even use "somebody's" idea of a stock thread size and pitch. Not necessarily "metric", but could be.
IF so.. it is small enough a hand tap can serve!

Or.. "best case"....a stock backplate size still used by one or more other, more common spindles, and it may be a simple box-tick on an order.

Worst case, some other-brother who HAS the capability can thread one for you.

Not as if you needed one each week. They last over a hundred years, after all!

:)
 
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JDM-oldschool

Plastic
Joined
Jun 2, 2022
Interesting that it doesn't hit 5 mm, as on some European square-socket goods I have.

Could be the chuck was US or British made. The UK was still using human-friendly "Imperial" measuring system in that era, not yet as precisely agreed with what by virtue of abandonment & inheritance is now called the "US" inch.

I do not recall when the last use of the old French "ligne" was, either, as Swiss FRENCH side of Schweiz was a noted center of metalworking expertise [1], and KEPT the "ligne" in the horology trade.... perhaps even unto the present-day?

"As American as baseball, hot dogs, Apple pie, and Chevrolet" is a funny.

All are imports.

:)

As WE are!

Louis Chevrolet (surname means "one who tends goats") and his brothers from Switzerland.

I am really not surprised by anything on that lathe anymore...
All bolts are weird sizes. 4,5mm 5,5mm 6,5mm diameters. 8mm with a 1,6mm pitch. 11mm right handed cross sled spindles with 1,8 pitch...

I tried to get imperial bolts for a test fit last week from a Triumph motorcycle dealer... I was surprised that there is all metric. And he told me that Harley Davidson is also metric in the meantime...
 

thermite

Diamond
I am really not surprised by anything on that lathe anymore...
All bolts are weird sizes. 4,5mm 5,5mm 6,5mm diameters. 8mm with a 1,6mm pitch. 11mm right handed cross sled spindles with 1,8 pitch...

I tried to get imperial bolts for a test fit last week from a Triumph motorcycle dealer... I was surprised that there is all metric. And he told me that Harley Davidson is also metric in the meantime...
ROFL!

A Motorcycle's only fastener-standard - from the time they first got ROUND stone wheels with pigskin tire treads - has always been "uniquely WEIRD proprietary!!".
:)

"For the larger picture..." Excluding Tsarist cubits and Arshins...

After that Prussian arschlock whatzizname screwed-up the Austro-Hungarian deal, continental Europe was sooo dependent on "imperial" (English, but not-only) industry and consumer goods - and/or markets to sell-INTO that were (whole 'Commonwealth.. Asia...) .. that their machine-tools supported a lot of inch/Metric threading capability to be able to do compatible work, repairs and such as well.

Multi-source and mixed-source fasteners were all OVER Europe, and wars only confused it even more! It just wasn't LIKE the "tidy" formal Metrifluckated system of today.

For openers, there was less "stuff". People didn't OWN as much. Factories used more labour, fewer machines.

Same deal here. We became a 'trilingual' metrology zone.

Americas work and play in either or both of inch or Metric .... plus .... Chinese-half-ass ....so don't much give a damn. Cannot. We have to JF "deal with that" ..surely refuse to give up cheap shite-level goods!

Bolt don't fit? Apply Gorilla Glue or BFH method. Big F*****g Hammer. Hammer in a freakin' RIVET!

"New Generation" wouldn't recognise a rivet unless it was through their tongue, nipple, or glans.

It's a glue, duct tape, and TiG welder stitch world NOW!!!

"Progress.... " more's the pity.....

:(
 
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