Anyone here making their own barrels?

[wesg]

Given the choice, I'd be happier giving up my 'toys', AR's and AK's, and that's all they are, *toys*, than my Social Security and Medicare benefits. And there's also the declining minimum wage the young people have to live off of. But that seems to be the plan, create a 'slave labor' class for the rich to get richer.

 

[BoxcarPete]

Given the choice, I'd be happier giving up my 'toys', AR's and AK's, and that's all they are, *toys*, than my Social Security and Medicare benefits. And there's also the declining minimum wage the young people have to live off of. But that seems to be the plan, create a 'slave labor' class for the rich to get richer.

For what it's worth, as a millenial my Social Security "benefit" will exceed expectations if I ever receive one bent penny. 100% of pyramid schemes collapse once people at the bottom realize what it is, but this time we get to find a new and exciting failure mode because we don't get to opt out!

Minimum wage isn't declining, it's on its way up. The culprit you're looking for is the one-two punch of constant inflation with monetary policy like quantitative asset easing, which results directly in stealth theft from the working and middle class.

On topic, I have been kicking around the idea of a home-built black powder rifle or shotgun for a little while now, but still don't have any concrete plans to go for it yet.

 

[john.k]

I built a replica Starr carbine ,just on a whim one day at work.....pre net ,for me anyway,so I could have made a better copy.....Ive also since discovered De Haas reviewed one with a drawing.in Part 2 of Single shot rifles .and actions........Fired a huge overload as a proof ,action never batted an eyelid,but parts of the case came out through the gap between block and barrel.......still needs finishing ......but so many guns so little time .

 

[mhajicek]

Alibaba has TIN coated carbide buttons for $20 - $30, listed as "reamers". Got one for kicks and it looks great. My thought it to start playing with pistol barrels; I figure they should be a lot easier, and the accuracy requirements are looser.

 

[50BMG DUDE]

Check out this book -

Rifling Machines & Methods​

by Clifford F LaBounty

Best book I've read on the subject. I have considerable experience with rifle and pistol barrels. I built my own twin head drilling machine, a twin head reaming machine and a cnc button puller. Could do barrels up to 40"

Eldorado tool is go to for drills and rifling buttons. Get your pull reamers from Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool & Gauge. (Dave also sells buttons)

Coolant pressure is key, use Sulphurized straight oil for drilling (not water soluable) 1000 PSI or better at the drill tip. Make or buy an eldorado type gun drill sharpening fixture to grind your drills or send them back to Eldarado for it every 20 or so tubes. (depends on the material). Gotta have RPM for small drills (.22 caliber ran at about 3600 RPM and about .00034/rev feedrate IIRC) - Counter rotating work holding from direction of your drill helps control drill wandering.

You MUST ream your barrels, use a pull reamer at about 300 PSI, same oil

Use only certified Ordnance grade US made steel (4140 recommended to start) - Ordnance grade steel is certified no inclusions and is made from virgin melt with no recycle. I've only found it available from Ryerson, but I've not looked at boutique steel companies.

The biggest catch to making button barrels that is not advertised - Your button size WILL be dependent on your raw stock diameter! It takes trial and error to find the size button for a given stock diameter and allow. This is why companies like Green Mountain only offer select size diameters of blanks.

I used buttons with pull rods brazed on from Eldorado, not sure what material their pull rods are (they wouldn't tell me). Pulling a button is MUCH easier than pushing it as you don't have to support the pushrod before it enters the bore. There is a Youtube video of a guy that built a rig to push a button, kinda interesting, but not very practical I didn't think.

You have to rotate the button at the twist rate ground into it with either a sine bar/rack arrangement, or CNC drive the rotation - I chose to build my own CNC machine to do this using Mach 3 for the control and it works great. There is a Youtube video of another guy that built a similar machine to mine for pulling buttons.

I use STP oil treatment for pulling lube for my buttons- a trick I picked up from an old timer I used to know that helped me out when I was getting started.

Was in the gun business for almost 25 years, pretty much retired now. I never did get around to building a cut rifling machine, Still have some large bore projects that may require it though.

Got any other questions -give me a yell.

Chris

 

[4575wcf]

Of course the late great Harry Pope was famous for making the most accurate low pressure barrels anybody ever heard of entirely on a lathe. If you will search about online, you can find a picture or two of the lathe, I think it still exists. It has so many additions, bells and whistles I can make no sense of it whatever. James V. Howe was well aware of the machine, he basically said that the only thing that made it work was Pope's patience and attention to detail, there was absolutely nothing special about the lathe itself.

 

[john.k]

Every dummy who wants to deep drill a barrel with a twistdrill insists Pope did it so can they .....I personally doubt Pope did use twistdrills,except as starters ......he may have used a spade drill with some flushing .....What always gets me is how insistant some of these would be barrel makers are.......they will listen to nothing that doesnt confirm their plans .

 

[GGaskill]

There is a simple answer to that, "If you know that will work, stop asking questions and start making barrels."

 

[Greg78]

Been thinking of getting into making my own barrels In house.

Been researching this a lot and trying to decide if I can accomplish this on my grizzly gunsmith lathe.

DME tool has the drills and rifling buttons but I’d need to come up with a flood system to run the drills and reamers. I seen a company that makes a spray mist type flood for this purpose.

Of course I’d build a ram system for the button rifling. Unless I build a sine type machine and cut the rifling.

Anyone here have any insight to help me out?

I have an idea I’m trying to develop for a new gun system and need the ability to make custom barrels for the platform.

I am know where near experienced enough to even think about doing something like that. But the first barrel was an idea that nobody that was possible. If you have the resources and time I say go for it. You could come up with a new process that could revolutionize the barrel making process. Seems to be a lot of negative people

 

[knifemaker3]

Check out this book -

Rifling Machines & Methods​

by Clifford F LaBounty

Best book I've read on the subject. I have considerable experience with rifle and pistol barrels. I built my own twin head drilling machine, a twin head reaming machine and a cnc button puller. Could do barrels up to 40"

Eldorado tool is go to for drills and rifling buttons. Get your pull reamers from Dave Kiff at Pacific Tool & Gauge. (Dave also sells buttons)

Coolant pressure is key, use Sulphurized straight oil for drilling (not water soluable) 1000 PSI or better at the drill tip. Make or buy an eldorado type gun drill sharpening fixture to grind your drills or send them back to Eldarado for it every 20 or so tubes. (depends on the material). Gotta have RPM for small drills (.22 caliber ran at about 3600 RPM and about .00034/rev feedrate IIRC) - Counter rotating work holding from direction of your drill helps control drill wandering.

You MUST ream your barrels, use a pull reamer at about 300 PSI, same oil

Use only certified Ordnance grade US made steel (4140 recommended to start) - Ordnance grade steel is certified no inclusions and is made from virgin melt with no recycle. I've only found it available from Ryerson, but I've not looked at boutique steel companies.

The biggest catch to making button barrels that is not advertised - Your button size WILL be dependent on your raw stock diameter! It takes trial and error to find the size button for a given stock diameter and allow. This is why companies like Green Mountain only offer select size diameters of blanks.

I used buttons with pull rods brazed on from Eldorado, not sure what material their pull rods are (they wouldn't tell me). Pulling a button is MUCH easier than pushing it as you don't have to support the pushrod before it enters the bore. There is a Youtube video of a guy that built a rig to push a button, kinda interesting, but not very practical I didn't think.

You have to rotate the button at the twist rate ground into it with either a sine bar/rack arrangement, or CNC drive the rotation - I chose to build my own CNC machine to do this using Mach 3 for the control and it works great. There is a Youtube video of another guy that built a similar machine to mine for pulling buttons.

I use STP oil treatment for pulling lube for my buttons- a trick I picked up from an old timer I used to know that helped me out when I was getting started.

Was in the gun business for almost 25 years, pretty much retired now. I never did get around to building a cut rifling machine, Still have some large bore projects that may require it though.

Got any other questions -give me a yell.

Chris

Can’t find that book in stock with a quick search. Will keep looking.
Thanks for your reply. I’m still researching this for my personal use. Doubt I’ll ever get to commercial side of it…..maybe!

 

[Sea Sick Steve]

I am know where near experienced enough to even think about doing something like that. But the first barrel was an idea that nobody that was possible. If you have the resources and time I say go for it. You could come up with a new process that could revolutionize the barrel making process. Seems to be a lot of negative people

Is it negativity or practicality Just because you can doesnt necessarily mean you should

 

[trevj]

Of course the late great Harry Pope was famous for making the most accurate low pressure barrels anybody ever heard of entirely on a lathe. If you will search about online, you can find a picture or two of the lathe, I think it still exists. It has so many additions, bells and whistles I can make no sense of it whatever. James V. Howe was well aware of the machine, he basically said that the only thing that made it work was Pope's patience and attention to detail, there was absolutely nothing special about the lathe itself.

One thing about the lathe in question that I have read (so it may be crapola anyways) is that the pair of numbers that Pope stamped on the bottoms of his barrels, were simply the tape measure in inches, from the back wall, to each end of his rifling jig...

Also read that he was not well off, in his later years, and as such a great deal of his personal correspondence was essentially looking to pull in favors, ask for loans, etc., and his kin burnt pretty much all his stuff after he passed, rather than have the stuff show his state at the end.

 

[Guy Hanson]

Been thinking of getting into making my own barrels In house.

Been researching this a lot and trying to decide if I can accomplish this on my grizzly gunsmith lathe.

DME tool has the drills and rifling buttons but I’d need to come up with a flood system to run the drills and reamers. I seen a company that makes a spray mist type flood for this purpose.

Of course I’d build a ram system for the button rifling. Unless I build a sine type machine and cut the rifling.

Anyone here have any insight to help me out?

I have an idea I’m trying to develop for a new gun system and need the ability to make custom barrels for the platform.

Don’t let people discourage you - i build Damascus barrels from billets i forge into cylinders and deep hole drill
The experts told me I’d never be able to do it without a gundrill. I did it on my old jet belt drive lathe. I built and bored a gun drill mount that bolted to the follow rest mount hole on the carriage, bought a factory gun drill, disconnected the gear to the quick change box and installed a coupler attached to a mill table power feed. That let me run max spindle speed and control carriage feed independently. I used an air powered lube pump from Sterling and their drill bits. I’m using rifled liners and stick to low pressure rounds because Damascus is not 4140. I ‘m 90% done building a cnc rifling machine that will rifle up to 6 in bores 60 inches long. None of this is that hard if you want to do it and put in the research.
The rifling machine is to rifle 40mm grenade barrels for the 5 barrel Gatling I’m making and yes I have the tax stamp and form 2

 

[4575wcf]

We are so lucky in these later days. We can buy round rails on mounting hardware to any precision level we want to pay for. We can buy ball screws that haven't any lash to traverse with. We can order deep drills and reamers ready to go, and we can choose to go the buttoned or cut way. Remember the old timers. They couldn't buy anything and had to do it all with brains, ingenuity and patience. And yet they got it done. I am not at all surprised that Harry Pope did not end well. He outlived the shoots that featured his rifles, and saw the time come when the cheap rifles shot nearly as well as the pricey ones. He had his time, it passed, and then so did he. That is the order of things. Currently I am on a topbreak pistol kick, and I have rediscovered Andrew Fyrberg. Another American gun builder instrumental in the development of the top break pistols who made bookoo contributions and every body made money on them but him. In Ned Roberts "The Caplock Muzzleloadiing Rifle" there is an exact description of how Norman Brockway drilled cast steel barrels with twist drills. It was quite an art, took an unpredictable amount of time, but he pulled it off regardless. Like any other machining operation there were tricks and troubles you only learned by doing enough of them.

 

[john.k]

One odd fact is back when I started in the machinery business,there were lots of the Pratt and Whitney drilling and rifling machines that were stripped of the works to make long flat tables for woodworking machines .....one auction I went to ,there must have been a dozen of them......now you see the complete P&W machines for asking prices around $10k

 

[cuslog]

Can’t find that book in stock with a quick search. Will keep looking.
Thanks for your reply. I’m still researching this for my personal use. Doubt I’ll ever get to commercial side of it…..maybe!

Pacific Tool and Gauge sells it and yes, it is worth having if you're interested in barrel making - probably the best reference I've seen.

 

[michiganbuck]

It would be interesting to know the diameter and straightness of the old barrels.
also how centered the bore was..and how much an off-center would affect the accuracy as the barrel heated up.

near 1000 yards shooting.